tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post1235783531682333613..comments2024-01-01T01:47:59.449+02:00Comments on Yaacov Lozowick's Ruminations: Does Anyone Choose the Nicest Idea?Yaacovhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12835192312242961481noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-56239606600446253372010-06-16T00:54:32.155+03:002010-06-16T00:54:32.155+03:00Sylvia
I never heard that one but one must admire ...Sylvia<br />I never heard that one but one must admire the creativity of these people. <br />I think though the basic problem is that they believe and want to make us believe that one has to look behind the whatever while in reality almost anybody who wants to achieve something needs group support and thus HAS to make public what he/she's after - just listen and read closely and they will tell you a lot more than those sleuths with their unidentified sources etc can ever find out. Sometimes one makes the mistake to discard as posturing what is dead-earnest and sometimes it's the other way around but on a whole it works pretty good once one has deciphered the euphemisms "they" use.<br /><br />I've just plowed through a piece by that lefty Pakistani/British nutter Tariq Ali*) about Afghanistan and Iraq, America, Russia, Iran - you get it - I think he manages to include Israel twice the second time ever so slyly making it clear that the initial mujahedeen somehow became rogue because they were Mossad-trained (of course it is possible that the Americans asked some Israelis to teach the mujahedeen a bit of irregular warfare but that Israel or the Mossad twisted the politics/strategy this way or that sounds loony. How loony he is you can tell when he claims that the Marines cut bullets out of - mostly - women and children i.e. they left them inside the men and assumed they could later claim that somebody else killed the ones without bullets. One must be very willing to believe to buy stuff like that but I am told by people a lot better educated than I am that the man is a great man.<br /><br />As he writes page-turner style probably a lot of people will believe that by the end of the piece they will have acquired real insider-knowledge instead of a big heap of B.S. - always if he knows that Israel and especially the Mossad is involved the rest must be true also.<br /><br />Silke<br /><br />*) (I must know what a nutter thinks who claims that Chavez and his ilk are the world's great hope for democracy)<br /><br />http://www.guernicamag.com/features/1809/ali_6_15_10/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=Emailmarketingsoftware&utm_content=1070049930&utm_campaign=TariqAliColombianCaptiveIndianSuicidesIranianFlags&utm_term=ObamasWarAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-78270342195343653982010-06-15T22:55:43.082+03:002010-06-15T22:55:43.082+03:00"but no Israelis - so news about it won't..."but no Israelis - so news about it won't sell thus there are no news about it."<br />Oh but they tried to inject Israel into it for that very purpose. At one point, pro-Polisario posters were spreading on the Internet that it was actually Ariel Sharon who suggested to Morocco to build that wall.Sylvianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-49572132900089017282010-06-15T21:35:46.833+03:002010-06-15T21:35:46.833+03:00Nycerbarb
I just felt that the word lucky in conne...Nycerbarb<br />I just felt that the word lucky in connection with refugee was a bit insensitive <br /><br />talking about callous, right now well fed North Koreans will be shown to the world -<br /> I wish the players luck as I wish it to any sportsman but their "dear Leader" I want to ...*) for that obsenity.<br /><br />Silke<br /><br /><br />*) insert your personal preference, I agree with any of themAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-57106316022931702412010-06-15T21:22:58.052+03:002010-06-15T21:22:58.052+03:00Silke wrote:
"As callous as it may sound, lu...Silke wrote:<br /><br />"As callous as it may sound, lucky for those the Arabs went after that there was a place they could flee to."<br /><br />That's not callous. Is that not why we must have a Jewish homeland? What if there were no Uzbekistan for the Uzbeks of Kygykstan to flee today? There is no Kurdistan for the Kurds of Turkey.<br /><br />NycerbarbAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-39436641471210477842010-06-15T21:19:01.697+03:002010-06-15T21:19:01.697+03:00Silke,
I am pretty sure that the UN recognition o...Silke,<br /><br />I am pretty sure that the UN recognition of Israel came first and then the Resolution (was it 194?) about Arab refugees and right of return came later. Also, there were Jewish refugees from the part of Palestine that Jordan occupied after the 1948 war. They were not given defined in the same way as the Arab refugees either.4infidelsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-38694397679111479072010-06-15T20:38:58.076+03:002010-06-15T20:38:58.076+03:004infidels
you are of course right - it only struck...4infidels<br />you are of course right - it only struck me how much the model seems to have been our law<br /><br />and yes the distinction that it is a supranational wannabe emperor who is imposing the rules is important (as you must know by now I am extremely weary of Ummas in all shapes and forms and demands)<br /><br />But:<br />wasn't it at least outwardly the same UN that decreed that there would be a state of Israel - did they maybe build this refugee lunacy already into that very first resolution?<br />Please don't get me wrong under today's conditions it is is such an unjust thing, equal to a demand for suicide <br /><br />SilkeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-69891733063203424762010-06-15T20:30:48.358+03:002010-06-15T20:30:48.358+03:00I just heard a German radio piece on Polisario and...I just heard a German radio piece on Polisario and/or Marocco<br /><br />- it seems that all kinds of UN-forces (military, legal, whatever) are working at getting some kind of election/treaty going. They are at it for a mere 20 years now and the whole thing is so interesting to the world that before listening to that piece I might have guessed right that Polisario and North-Africa are somehow related and that there is a fence or wall and a conflict there and that's it - as far as I'm concerned that is not for lack of interest<br />I don't know though if the fence or wall thereabouts belongs to this conflict or to another <br /><br />but no Israelis - so news about it won't sell thus there are no news about it. Also the word suffering lacked in the piece including all possible synonyms-<br /><br />SilkeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-45344333400911694802010-06-15T19:55:44.451+03:002010-06-15T19:55:44.451+03:00Silke,
The difference in your example of Germany ...Silke,<br /><br />The difference in your example of Germany is that the state is defining who it considers a refugee or wants to offer immigration/citizenship rights.<br /><br />With the Palestinians, it is the UN and international law (or at least international consensus) that defines them differently from every other group of refugees, who don't pass refugee status on to their children and whose children do not inherit any "right of return" unless the state, as in the case of Germany, wants to offer it to them.<br /><br />Barry,<br /><br />I agree. For the Palestinians, Arabs and Muslims, the real pain and humiliation is that they can't destroy that infidel state of Israel run by those supposedly lowly, weak and despised Jews.4infidelsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-27814945961707998852010-06-15T19:30:17.282+03:002010-06-15T19:30:17.282+03:00The Palestinian tragedy is that they didn't de...The Palestinian tragedy is that they didn't destroy the Jewish State at its inception.<br /><br />And weren't able to do so at any time afterward.<br /><br />Accordingly, the only way to "roll back" that tragedy is to destroy the Jewish State. ("Better late than never", as it is said.)<br /><br />And since they haven't yet succeeded, they continue to suffer ever so terribly.<br /><br />And the world, sick of suffering (at least where Palestinians are concerned) has come to agree with their definition of their tragedy, which has become the world's TRAGEDY (fittingly, not to mention conveniently, caused by Jews), and has also decided to adapt the Palestinians' prescription of the REMEDY to their TRAGEDY.<br /><br />And so, stay tuned.....Barry Meislinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04795125774426217113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-25609293932215777112010-06-15T19:14:36.446+03:002010-06-15T19:14:36.446+03:004infidels
I read the Edward Said saga in bits and ...4infidels<br />I read the Edward Said saga in bits and pieces in Commentary some years ago - unbelievable anybody with a sense of shame and self-respect would refuse to travel on such a ticket (unless in dire straights of course) - below is a link to a talk of the still revered (by Christopher Hitchens) man himself. I have listened to a maximum of about 15 minutes - his voice is so full of hatred while playing the cultured one I couldn't stand it.<br /><br />The way you described the classification of Palestinians as refugees for generations and generations made me wonder whether they used as a model for that regulation German citizen law. I am told that what we have is called Ius Sanguinis and it entitles a lot of Russians with German ancestry to immediate citizenship - Mind you I don't grudge anything to anyone who comes with the intent to contribute but we had a saying at the time when the first waves came and it became obvious what a farce the rules about one German grandmother or so was and it went like: anybody who has a German shepherd (dog) in the family (Hitler's was one and she was called Blondie) - it was meant as a bitter joke because at the same time others with the "wrong" blood but in dire need had to fight hard to be allowed to stay let alone get citizenship)<br />the world is a terribly unjust place and everywhere everybody is allowed to say that's just how things are, only when it comes to Israel then all of a sudden everything has to be superhumanly lily-white.<br /><br />Silke<br />PS; the other day I read a piece by Leon Wieseltier who bemoaned that the house of a highly cultured Palestinian family was now "profaned" by more simple Jewish folks living in it - what an "atrocity"! <br /><br />http://deimos3.apple.com/WebObjects/Core.woa/Browse/berkeley.edu.78024635.078024641.84902441?i=1648003150Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-49498518099196166152010-06-15T18:53:21.046+03:002010-06-15T18:53:21.046+03:00Sylvia
as second thought your explanation for that...Sylvia<br />as second thought your explanation for that 7-enigma demonstrated again very nicely to me how much of a no-brainer comparisons from one country's system to the next are. As a life-long clerk I am aware that even a minor change in the basics may entail all kinds of unexpected consequences - so all one can "judge" is a basic feeling of freedom and not go about other states like NIF's Naomi did in the other thread and which Yaacov protested against:<br /><br />Even if she or NIF act as "envoys" of the empire of today the cheek of it is breathtaking:<br /><br /> "Israel is not behaving as a liberal democracy in so many areas. We work to try to correct that."<br /><br />http://yaacovlozowick.blogspot.com/2010/06/nif-supports-israels-enemies.html<br /><br />SilkeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-2083164927342717882010-06-15T17:11:44.336+03:002010-06-15T17:11:44.336+03:00PA President Abbas is another hypocrite. If the Z...PA President Abbas is another hypocrite. If the Zionist Jews have no right to live in Israel, by what right does his Algerian tribe from Damascus that settled in Safed in the 1870s? Safed was city that had significant Jewish populations going back centuries and was the place where Jews developed the Middle East's first printing press in the 1500s.<br /><br />Abbas has admitted that his family fled Safed during the 1940s because they feared that if the Jews won, they would take revenge on the Arabs for the massacres of Safed Jews in the 1920s. He also admitted that because his father had money, the family sat out the 1948 war in comfort. For Abbas' father, Palestine was apparently not worth fighting for. And also, they felt at home elsewhere in the Arab world, as there was not separate Palestinian national identity, so an Arab of Algerian heritage, whose family had not even three-quarters of a century of history in Palestine, going to Jordan or Syria was not really different that going from Safed to Nablus.4infidelsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-72476303671710220322010-06-15T17:00:42.653+03:002010-06-15T17:00:42.653+03:00Silke,
The UN define "refugee" differen...Silke,<br /><br />The UN define "refugee" differently for Palestinian Arabs than for any other group. Arabs from Palestine are the only people who pass refugee status on to their future generations. That is why a third-generation Arab-American whose great-grandparents fled Jaffa in 1947 is considered a "Palestinian refugee" and will go on endlessly about the horrors of statelessness. Contrast this with, for example, the children of Holocaust survivors who are born in America and are rightly not considered refugees by either the UN or common sense.<br /><br />Also, looking deeper into the political motivations behind the classification of Palestinian refugees and the political motivations for creating such a class a people, one will find that the definition of Palestinian refugee includes anyone who had been in Palestine for two or more years...and of course their descendants in perpetuity. That means that an Egyptian who came to Jerusalem in 1945 because of greater economic opportunity and then went back home when he thought war was coming, can now claim for himself and all his descendants to be refugees from Palestine and victims of the evil Jewish Zionists who stole his home. <br /><br />Make that person's family rich and that person born in Jerusalem (probably because his educated parents knew where the best doctors could be found), and then immediately returned to Egypt and you have Edward Said, a fraud whose entire life story is a metaphor for the lies and manipulations of Palestinian identity and supposed victimization by Zionist Jews.<br /><br />This is not to say that there aren't Arabs from Palestine who lost their homes and have endured hardships and loss. But the amount of B.S., the actual level of suffering in comparison to practically every other group of refugees from the 20th century and the role that their own leaders and fellow Arabs played in creating their departure from Palestine makes this constant wine about Israel's "original sin" in defeating a genocidally-driven Arab armed attack to destroy the nascent state that the Jews created a little tough to take.4infidelsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-63413996080863883482010-06-15T15:31:01.158+03:002010-06-15T15:31:01.158+03:00Sylvia
thanks for solving the 7-enigma
as to driv...Sylvia<br />thanks for solving the 7-enigma<br /><br />as to driven out Jews more or less I knew or guessed all that, after all why should they have behaved any better than my forebears did before those got going in a really "orderly" way. <br /><br />As callous as it may sound, lucky for those the Arabs went after that there was a place they could flee to. <br /><br />But I also had a more general question i.e. have there ever been done meticulous statistics as I understand exist on the Israeli side for those who left or were made to leave around 1948? (i.e. who left due to propaganda from the Arab side, out of "normal" war-zone fright or due to Israeli pressure). When reading WRM I just guessed that the numbers wouldn't be equal as he implies.<br /><br />In Germany whenever another famous painting or piece of property is being claimed we get all these to my ears cruel distinctions at nauseam. But I guess nobody cares to do them for the Jews from Muslim lands because there isn't a chance at restitution no matter how meagre anyway.<br /><br />To give you an idea of how refugee/expelled figures are manipulated. The most serious count of Germans after WW2 is currently I think around 1,5 mio. Our now outgoing president put it in a speech at 3 mio i.e. only double ;) (he is from a refugee family) and WRM had the figure at 12 mio i.e. almost 10 times. The same applies to victims of the Dresden bombing there is from serious sources anything around from 10.000 to a 100.000. That's why reading figures tends to alert me into a kind of automatic control-calculation mode and since WRM used in the piece "suffering" only for Palestinians I became especially vigilant to the rest of the data/equations he inserts.<br /><br />By N-word I meant Nakba - while doing my trolling over at Ibrahim's I got the impression that that is one of the buzz words the idiots are looking for and I didn't want to lure them to here.<br /><br />Silke<br /><br />(btw we were less than nice and welcoming to our own refugees - people my age of that ancestry easily get into hating mood towards us "indigenous" ones to this day.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-38919263641587722702010-06-15T14:46:59.362+03:002010-06-15T14:46:59.362+03:00Silke
The 7 member cabinet is the government inn...Silke<br /><br />The 7 member cabinet is the government inner sanctum where decisions are made. It is composed of Netanyahu and chosen representatives.<br /><br />Jews of Arab lands have been formally expelled from countries newly rich in gaz and oil at the time of their independence, such as Libya and Algeria.They were attacked, robbed, then stripped of their nationality. Algeria, for example, introduced in its 1962 Constitution a grandfather clause stating that only someone whose grandfather was a Muslim could be an Algerian citizen.<br /><br />In other countries such as Iraq, Morocco, etc,they fled after they were attacked by mobs on a rampage burning breaking windows and doors in Jewish neighborhoods.<br /><br />I read that the "righteous Jews" (by Mearsheimer definition) are feeling so sorry for that Israeli Arab woman MK who was on the flotilla shouting "go back to Auschwitz". Compare her situation and position to that of say, famous Jewish French singer Enrico Macias, who isn't allowed to visit the graves of his loved ones in Algeria. His father in law and mentor, Sheikh Raymond, a musician and composer, was assassinated for having the arrogance to write and play popular Algerian music in the national dialect. <br /><br />None of these people or their descendants would ever contemplate a one state solution. They have nowhere else to go.<br /><br />This is what the Arabo-Muslims and their supporters want you to forget when they associate Israelis with Germany and Poland. <br /><br />PS: I didn't understand what you mean by N-word. Please eplain.Sylvianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-90396279362574181012010-06-14T22:22:05.457+03:002010-06-14T22:22:05.457+03:004infidels
"(The PA never condemns these atta...4infidels<br /><br />"(The PA never condemns these attacks.)"<br /><br />and we are told they are reliable partners one can do business with (and the policeman has paid the price for the blue-eyedness of the know-it-all-crowd)<br /><br />Silke<br /><br />http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2010/06/newest-terror-group-flotilla-martyrs.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-43136427913508607702010-06-14T22:13:28.083+03:002010-06-14T22:13:28.083+03:004infidels
thanks, no wonder they wanted them to le...4infidels<br />thanks, no wonder they wanted them to leave <br />- who could resist such loot?<br /><br />but I guess we have to be careful discussing that subject or some screamer will show up yelling about the N-word (I've stopped using certain words because I got a butting idea which words nutters are googling for and though I have my "fun" with them elsewhere I don't want to attract them to here)<br /><br />SilkeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-88544704856328520922010-06-14T21:57:04.470+03:002010-06-14T21:57:04.470+03:00I've just finished reading Michael Totten'...I've just finished reading Michael Totten's interview of Victor David Hanson - if you need the feel of somebody being with you read it - the print-out is 15 pages and they cover a lot. <br /><br />teaser:<br />"MJT: Sure. You can say anything you want in Israel"<br /><br />I have two minor reservations (what else): <br />One is about finishing Hamas - I think containing Hamas is more realistic because once they are taken out chances are great that chaos breaks out and even nuttier rulers come to power not to mention all the hazards that accompany an intermittent civil war - it's not like ancient times when you could annihilate total peoples - now its not 20.000 it's 1,5 million <br /> <br />and the other one is VDH moaning about European social entitlements. During my self-education in economics I came repeatedly across how much the US spends for that and percentage wise they are even with us if not ahead, so if the figures were correct it is just more opaque than what we do.<br /><br />SilkeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-82479116626139755602010-06-14T20:58:08.949+03:002010-06-14T20:58:08.949+03:00Silke,
There was also a study done a few years ba...Silke,<br /><br />There was also a study done a few years back that figured that Jews fleeing Arab countries were forced to leave behind land that in total would be equal to about 5 or 6 times the size of Israel.4infidelsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-86782775165695898402010-06-14T20:49:17.963+03:002010-06-14T20:49:17.963+03:00Silke,
I believe the number of Jewish refugees fr...Silke,<br /><br />I believe the number of Jewish refugees from Arab countries has been estimated between 800,000 and more than 1 million. So even the most conservative estimate of Jewish refugees from Arab countries exceeds the number of Arab refugees from Israel.<br /><br />John Roy Carlson in Cairo to Damascus, talks about how the number of Arab refugees was being exaggerated for political purposes...and that was long before the "consensus" figure was accepted as 700,000. I forgot exactly what the number was, but I believe that Carlson and others from that era figured 350,000 was a high estimate for Arab refugees from Israel.<br /><br />Samuel Katz discusses this in Battleground as well.4infidelsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-84350838625743252822010-06-14T20:41:00.297+03:002010-06-14T20:41:00.297+03:00Sylvia gets it exactly right!Sylvia gets it exactly right!4infidelsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-7607969940813695142010-06-14T19:47:24.216+03:002010-06-14T19:47:24.216+03:00Walter Russell Mead comes up with yet another idea...Walter Russell Mead comes up with yet another idea (I think it's not do-able and not just because we Europeans are so you-know-what) <br /><br />I have learned to like WRM these last weeks quite a bit<br /><br />BUT:<br />he uses in the piece 4 times the word suffering and 4 times it ties in with Palestinians <br />- Is there no suffering of Israelis? in Sderot? (I know of a lot of other sufferings inflicted on Israelis, I just keep typing Sderot because with every new rocket coming they will relive the old horrors and that is the kind of horror at least my body remembers well)<br /><br />So how did it happen that even with a guy as smart as WRM and as fair-minded as he honestly seems to be, suffering is an adjective that pops into his mind only in conncection with Palestinians?<br /><br />Other than that WRM to his credit brings up a lot of info which is routinely missing from "my" news <br /><br />that said just one more but<br /><br />is the number of Jewish refugees from Muslim lands really up there with the number of Palestinians? (I don't know if there is any plausible statistics dividing the having "voluntarily" fled from the expulsed, but I seem to remember that a lot more Jews were forced out than Palestinians in 48)<br />Are there any Jewish MPs in any of the countries from which Jews were made to flee?<br />and what does he mean by Gazans and harsh military rule and no mention of Hamas in the context - who is the harsh ruler? <br />Silke<br /><br /><br />http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2010/06/14/the-world-must-do-more-for-middle-east-peace/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-81387738295292129092010-06-14T17:01:52.248+03:002010-06-14T17:01:52.248+03:00Sergio
OT but just in case you are interested in f...Sergio<br />OT but just in case you are interested in football history also - these old guys telling their stories totally charm even somebody as ignorant as myself.<br />enjoy!<br />Silke<br /><br />http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p007zp1sAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-34158103462603243952010-06-14T16:43:03.593+03:002010-06-14T16:43:03.593+03:00Oz's op-ed just reminds usthat naiveté/wishful...Oz's op-ed just reminds usthat naiveté/wishful-thinking can afflict even the most talented people.Sergionoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-10474406895562777362010-06-14T13:07:52.745+03:002010-06-14T13:07:52.745+03:00Sylvia
who is the seven member cabinet?
I agree w...Sylvia<br />who is the seven member cabinet?<br /><br />I agree with getting into their heads etc. but I have scant hope for the scholars of Islam being of any use judging from the majority I hear interviewed on our radio (I get also told that we have quite a to be revered tradition in Islam studies, so it can't be lack of academic valour)<br /><br />- it may be though that all of us may be pretty good at it if we'd just stoop "low" enough to do it the Miss Marple way i.e. "this reminds me ..."<br />After all all of us have met enough real life deluded one way or another fanatics face to face through our life time to know a lot more about how they tick than we realize amidst all this noise from academia that only they are qualified ...<br /><br />- our (German) Islam scholars tend to sound besotted by "their" authenticity and identity and all the other cheap buzz words to gloss over what is considered just plain unacceptable behaviour even by a majority of "them" - but when rallied to a cause all that seems to be irrelevant for these well-trained minds. (who on the other hand whenever they stay within their real expertise may really have something to offer but once hubris takes over they sound beyond repair)<br /><br />SilkeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com