tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post2974027368311516797..comments2024-01-01T01:47:59.449+02:00Comments on Yaacov Lozowick's Ruminations: A Draft Conversion LawYaacovhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12835192312242961481noreply@blogger.comBlogger74125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-62290146343051690462010-07-23T13:04:20.184+03:002010-07-23T13:04:20.184+03:00Sylvia
I googled Frankenstein a bit, there is prec...Sylvia<br />I googled Frankenstein a bit, there is precious little to be found on or by him I didn't even find his birth date. As to any circle of friends it seems he was at one time at the same uni as Hannah Arendt. All these Menschen- and WeltVerbesserer (improvement) types are deeply suspicious to me and I found one piece at Wikipedia about what seems to stem from Frankenstein's circle about Mizrachi which makes my stomach churn.<br /><br />I don't remember Kashi mentioning any names. He talked in the last part a lot about what we call reform schools (that's why I now looked up Frankenstein, hoping, guessing to find a connection.)<br /><br />No matter their language I don't trust them, too much elitist babble in there for my taste and he mentioned what maybe the flagship of them i.e. Odenwald (quite a sex scandal there recently, one director quite thoroughly "misinterpreting" the pedagogic eros thingy) - they claim that those kinds of schools gave "them" (all of "them") a better chance. As to handicapped children I read from time to time that it is still tried to keep them in a "normal" environment around here. Off hand I'd guess it'd be more a benefit to the "normals" <br /><br />As to me no great idea I have ever read about has much impressed me. When a teacher loves his subject, that is infectious, and if he/she should tell a story, yes also in math, well, then magic will happen and knowledge be transferred whether the curtains are tops of the art or not.<br /><br />I referred to merchant without finance and not out of delicacy but the piece was really about merchants i.e. people with the skill, the nerve, the discretion and the knowledge to sniff out high quality stuff in remote places as I remember some of them did or else with the kind of sophisticated gut feeling and thorough knowledge combined that lets one estimate what a market will dig and absorb. Those are in my books skills all the way up there with PhDs and more and I think they are not conducive to be systematized into a curriculum, but are best acquired when one can immerse oneself into them from childhood on. Which, in my book does not lessen them in any way. (remember Germany is the country of the Hanse and I was told in school to be proud of them - always this ridiculous proud, they were good at what they did - they were merchants - their decline is in Buddenbrooks)<br /><br />But that is only me who has listened to only one live uni lecture in her whole life. (and yes finance is a very sophisticated business too and right now it seems it wasn't a good idea to hand it over completely to apparently thorougly indoctrinated uni-types. It might have been a lot better to leave it in the hands of those who had a tradition of it in the family and I don't give a hoot about anybody's "identity" when I may feel sure that they have learned about "risk" from the crib on.)<br /><br />SilkeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-54585871487809382402010-07-23T04:05:24.850+03:002010-07-23T04:05:24.850+03:00That guy reminded me of something, but I didn'...That guy reminded me of something, but I didn't know exactly what until I read that he was into pedagogy. <br />There was an Israeli pedagogue named Karl Frankenstein (yes!) who has developed that theory that children from North African countries in particular were naturally retarded, something like that. Accordingly he put them into classes with mentally handicapped children (this is what I vaguely remember). <br />He wrote books, and if that Kashi has been inspired by them then he will eventually know that Frankenstein is today largely discredited, I find it worrisome that he seems to be following in Karl Frankenstein's footsteps.<br /><br />PS: you lost me with this reference to finance and merchants. If that has anything to do with that guy's statement, let me tell you that I am totally clueless when it comes to business. My Ph.D. is in the Humanities, with expertise in French poetry and Comparative Literature. I hardly fit the bill (and so are many others like me, who left for other horizons, where their talents were better appreciated). <br />If I misunderstood, then disregard what I just wrote.Sylvianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-82577189702653014512010-07-22T12:41:08.561+03:002010-07-22T12:41:08.561+03:00thanks Sylvia
so I guessed right
- and I won'...thanks Sylvia<br /><br />so I guessed right <br />- and I won't start telling stories about "Bildungsferne" in villages an hour away from Frankfurt where people are doing really well financially ;-) <br />come to think of it they are never meant when our "bildungsfern" is discussed, "bildungsfern" is applied to urbans only and they by your explanation definitely do not qualify.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-76831491153933071722010-07-22T04:01:54.246+03:002010-07-22T04:01:54.246+03:00"he singled out Mizrahis for being "bild..."he singled out Mizrahis for being "bildungsfern""<br /><br />Mizrahi, Mizrachi, Arab Jews, are names that we never gave to ourselves and they are nowhere mentioned in any community's records going back centuries. These are names that lump together groups from some fifty countries with different languages, traditions and cultures.<br />Personally, I have never accepted those terms. <br />Having said that, I assume he means Jews from Arabo-Muslim countries.<br /><br />"However, the way he said it made me wonder whether Mizrahi have no tradition of anything equivalent to shuls which are said to have given "our" Jews such a leg-up when literate people were needed"<br /><br />First, thank you for asking, nobody ever does.<br />Of course every Jewish community has them since they must prepare for barmitzva, which requires reading and writing. In addition, elementary education was provided by a Jewish network of schools that stretched from Teheran to Casablanca, in every Muslim country except Yemen. Those schools taught all the subjects in French (some schools were in English) along with Jewish studies. I (and my parents before me) followed the same programs and had the same books as say, the Jews of Salonica. There were also private schools, Talmud Tora, yeshivas, kolels, colleges for Rabbinic judges, girls' seminaries, not to mention public schools and universities. <br />Jews couldn't be educated in Arabic (except as a foreign language) since it was the language of the Koran and Muslim theologians, except in countries like Iraq - at least for a while - when Arabism as an identity was being imposed. <br /><br />But of course, like in any other country, there are always people in remote areas, very small towns and villages where education is not available.Sylvianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-23216967704619270592010-07-21T21:29:35.798+03:002010-07-21T21:29:35.798+03:00thanks Sylvia
I found it interesting in the Muqata...thanks Sylvia<br />I found it interesting in the Muqata piece to learn that the Rabbinate is a state institution - so I'll read the Wiki carefully <br /><br />In the context of the Syrian Jews I just heard a lecture on how Democracy Learning is done in Israel's school system by a man from Yad Vashem named Uriel Kashi. His German is accent free and non-idiotmatic use of words is absolutely minimal.<br /><br />But here is what I, having "met" you and due to my own life story, winced at: He described at one point the Mizrahi as "bildungsfern" - far away from education. Maybe he misused the term but in German we use the word when we want to be polite about those who are averse to being taught and learn and are in general a problem to schools. Of course that may, depending on how it is used, include all kids from homes where there are no books. <br /><br />However, the way he said it made me wonder whether Mizrahi have no tradition of anything equivalent to shuls which are said to have given "our" Jews such a leg-up when literate people were needed by the Prussian state in great numbers. I once read a piece how a cluster of "oriental" Jews were doing well in the US as merchants and I can't see how that should be a minor accomplishment compared to lawyers etc. Of course Kashi's was a broad overview of how the Israeli school system evolved and so he had to lump things together, but he singled out Mizrahis for being "bildungsfern" while saying about Arabs that they got different and not so well performing schools because of the language barrier.<br /><br />I couldn't find a text of his presentation, just the links below - My introduction to it all goes way back when I had a friend in school who was a great draftswoman, she did my bio drawings for me and I explained math to her in all angles I could come up with until it clicked, and it always hurt and confused me that teachers seemed to consider her gift as less valuable than mine. So I am maybe oversensitive to put-downs in that area.<br /><br />Silke<br /><br />http://www.urielkashi.de/<br /><br />http://www.dig-stuttgart.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/10-03-04-einladung-kashi.pdfAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-88565734355251068542010-07-21T20:13:03.601+03:002010-07-21T20:13:03.601+03:00Silke
"is it maybe a struggle of Byzantine po...Silke<br />"is it maybe a struggle of Byzantine political wisdom against Rome's different one."<br />There is an article on the Rabbinate in Wikipedia - I don't know who wrote it and to what extent it is accurate but I believe you can get the thrust of it.<br /><br /><br />"is there any connection to what is Lieberman supposed to have said in the Haaretz piece Yaacov linked to? <br />"We'll teach Bibi a lesson he'll never forget."<br /> <br />he might use it, but the main reason is that Bibi is doing to him what he has done to his foreign Minister David Levy in the 1990's - he went behind his back and made him practically irrelevant while he let Barak - the Defense Minister - take on missions that Lieberman should have handled as Foreign Minister. This could be read as an intention on Bibi's part to push Lieberman's party to leave the coalition and replace it with Kadima. Who knows?<br /><br />"Wiki tells me, they are even more numerous than the ones in Israel."<br /><br />And they are not the only ones. There are many "ethnic" Jewish groups who don't get counted. Take for instance the Syrian Jewish community, the longest enduring Jewish community in the US. You never see them bash Israel in the US, although they were they were among the first to establish websites on the Internet. Beinart doesn't count them when he challenges the "Jewish establishment" in his logically fallacious essay.Sylvianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-15724073298358466792010-07-21T19:57:00.853+03:002010-07-21T19:57:00.853+03:00Nycerbarb - Never. Not possible.Nycerbarb - Never. Not possible.Yaacovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12835192312242961481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-36957145155299930682010-07-21T19:25:54.992+03:002010-07-21T19:25:54.992+03:00"he mentioned that opposition was fomented by..."he mentioned that opposition was fomented by IRAC, who have been trying to change the status quo through the Israel's Supreme Court, but gave no details."<br />Yes, you could say that :)<br />IRAC is the Religious Action Center, the Israeli arm of the Reform Movement which is of course financed by the RefCon Movement in the US and NIF. They have an army of lawyers and legal assistants. AsI said in my previous post, the Reform/Conservatives see the Israeli Rabbinate as THE threat.<br />They would like to cancel the Rabbinate altogether or have a Reform rabbinate, an Orthodox Rabbinate, etc.<br /><br />"He also said that opposition was politically based, in attempt to weaken Yisrael Beitenu. Do you agree?" <br />No, I don't agree. Other than IRAC, the opponents are those such as Sharansky or even Netanyahu who want to appease American RefCons because that law will make their jobs more difficult. Any way you turn it, it brings you back to the American Progressives as main - and only opposition. I stated in another post that Rav Melchior (Orthodox) is not for it - it's for the same reason.<br /><br />I am going to look later this evening what French Jewry have to say about it - Reform is quite strong there although not as strong as in America.Sylvianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-87299484262994656752010-07-21T17:40:25.923+03:002010-07-21T17:40:25.923+03:00Yaacov and Syliva -
Thanks for responding. I wil...Yaacov and Syliva -<br /><br />Thanks for responding. I will respond more fully in the evening (for me - the wee hours of the morning for you.)<br /><br />In the meantime, in the Muqata article he mentioned that opposition was fomented by IRAC, who have been trying to change the status quo through the Israel's Supreme Court, but gave no details. Do you know what that is about?<br /><br />He also said that opposition was politically based, in attempt to weaken Yisrael Beitenu. Do you agree? Is it possible in Israel that political interests are put ahead of the good of the people?! (asked with great sarcasm)<br /><br />NycerbarbAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-72201621690140783952010-07-21T14:35:52.610+03:002010-07-21T14:35:52.610+03:00I read the Muqata piece (not the comments) with my...I read the Muqata piece (not the comments) with my interest in power-sharing between religion and state in mind.<br /><br />Therefore it struck me that the bill seems to want to strengthen a state religious authority at the expense of a religious religious authority. <br />Comparing it to what I have read about Byzantium vs. Roman traditions in that field it looks to me like a shift from Roman tradition to Byzantine tradition and Moscow/SU/Russia is said to be the true inheritor of the Orthodox world view after Constantinople had fallen where the state had always managed to in the end make the church obey while in Rome (Western Europe) the church has managed to re-grab its independent authority from the emperors again and again. <br /><br />i.e. is it maybe a struggle of Byzantine political wisdom against Rome's different one.<br /><br />with that in mind is there any connection to what is Lieberman supposed to have said in the Haaretz piece Yaacov linked to? <br />"We'll teach Bibi a lesson he'll never forget." <br /><br />i.e. no matter how useful in solving an existing problem the bill maybe or not what about good ol' power play in the background? Somewhere I've seen mentioned that Lieberman met with the US-Russian-Jewish community in NY and Wiki tells me, they are even more numerous than the ones in Israel. 2 mio should, if united, be capable of providing quite a voice.<br /><br />SilkeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-64498947488486791872010-07-21T11:04:55.829+03:002010-07-21T11:04:55.829+03:00Nycerbarb
You won't see it spelled out if that...Nycerbarb<br />You won't see it spelled out if that's what you expect. It naturally derives from the second provision of that law, which requires the converting (municipal Rabbinate)Raabbi to immediately register the convert for marriage (at the Rabbinate) after conversion. (See my post to RK and see RK's post regarding the current situation where the Rabbinate has sometimes annuled the conversion performed by another Rabbi.<br />Only the Israeli Rabbinate can authorize a Jew to marry. And once the convert is registered for marriage, there is no going back whatever the person does or doesn't do. There is no perjury there. <br /><br />In fact Rabbi Regev of the Reform Movement in Israel seemed to grasp very quickly the implications of that second provision for Reform - as he was participating in a radio debate called Hanekuda haYehudit (Reshet Bet) on July 15 where the statement regarding the marriage was made. <br />The Reform and Conservative Movements have always seen the Rabbinate (not so much the ultra-Orthodox) as THE threat. <br /><br />I said most of them won't change their way of life after conversion. But you must understand that most Israelis - even the non-affiliated the non-Jews and the secular - keep passively certain mitzvot. In my town for example - where there are many immigrants from the former SU - there is no public transportation on Shabbat and all the supermarkets sell Kasher foods only. No one works on Shabbat and Holidays. No bread is sold duriung the week of Passover. So there will not be much change there. <br /><br /><br />All other denominations are allowed to perform conversion. In this particular case, those people want the Rabbinate to do it and I can understand why. Russians tend to keep to themselves around language and culture: they have their own newspapers, TV channels, etc. They don't want to alienate themselves further from society also in matters of religion. And the Rabbinate is an integrating and unifying force in the country. It is not a denomination though it is Orthodox. It is the umbrella religious institution in the country for Jews dating back several centuries in the region.Sylvianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-44293306870577346882010-07-21T10:48:31.532+03:002010-07-21T10:48:31.532+03:00Nycerbarb,
To the extent that I'm informed - ...Nycerbarb,<br /><br />To the extent that I'm informed - and I haven't researched the matter - most converts in Israel don't live an orthodox life-style. The 40,000-some olim from the USSR who have already converted, certainly don't, most of them. No-one expects more than a handful of the 300,000 others to, either. This may indeed be part of the reason the Haredi are doing their best to prevent their conversion entirely, which would be yet another example of how the Haredi agenda is dramatically out of sync with that of the rest of us.<br /><br />Your second question is pertinent only if you think the issue with Reform and Conservative is their conversions - which of course it isn't and never was. The question, ever since the early 1950s, has always been "who is a rabbi?" even though everyone pretends otherwise.Yaacovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12835192312242961481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-78754511831655439282010-07-21T07:29:58.040+03:002010-07-21T07:29:58.040+03:00Sylvia-
You wrote:
"Of course, it is the obl...Sylvia-<br /><br />You wrote:<br />"Of course, it is the obligation of any Orthodox Rabbi to tell the convert at the end of the study period that he/she must take upon themselves "hol tora umitzvot kahalakha".<br />But I got from the debates and discussions that have been raging here that it's going to be "Orthodox Lite", which means that they won't enforce it. We're talking about some 300 000 thousand Israelis, from atheist Soviet Union, most of whom have no intention of changing their way of life, at least not drastically."<br /><br />Where did you get that from? I have seen nothing in the discussions to suggest that the rabbis "will look the other way," so to speak. But if this is the case, then I understand why the Reform and Conservative are up in arms. As an MO, I am stunned. If you say the rabbinate will accept converts knowing full well they don't intend to 100% keep commandments, as long as the conversion is overseen by an orthodox rabbi then 1) you are asking those rabbis to perjure themselves, 2) then why not allow other denominations to perform the conversion?<br /><br />NycerbarbAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-61729610364007131872010-07-21T07:19:14.406+03:002010-07-21T07:19:14.406+03:00I have just finished reading this blog post at The...I have just finished reading this blog post at The Muqata: http://muqata.blogspot.com/2010/07/rotem-conversion-law.html<br />which includes over 80 comments, and in the comments section there is a translation of the bill.<br /><br />This is my take away:<br />1) Currently the haredi controlled "Rabbinic Court" controls conversions. The bill would allow municipal rabbis, subject to the Chief Rabbinate oversight, to perform conversions. Some of these rabbis are not haredi, although orthodox. So the cumulative effect of the bill would be to go from have a very small group of orthodox rabbis controlling conversions, to having a somewhat larger, and supposedly more diverse group of orthodox rabbis controlling conversions.<br /><br />2) The bill's aim is to make it easier for the non-Jewish Russian citizens of Israel to convert by increasing the number of available rabbis. Although no one explains why Russian immigrants from the atheist FSU will jump to convert in this new arrangement.<br /><br />3) Eligibility for citizenship under the "Law of Return" is separate from "rabbinic recognition as a Jew." The latter affects only marriage and burial, if the rabbinate doesn't accept you, it won't marry you or bury you in a Jewish cemetery.<br /><br />4) Reform and Conservative converts from outside of Israel are accepted as citizens. I don't know what their status with rabbinate is, nor for their descendants.<br /><br />5) The bill makes no mention of the Diaspora nor any denomination of Judaism. Only the word halacha.<br /><br />That's all for now,<br />NycerbarbAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-82342536067004967712010-07-20T21:24:34.447+03:002010-07-20T21:24:34.447+03:00Bryan
I should have qualified "how dare they?...Bryan<br />I should have qualified "how dare they?" stems exclusively from 2 Goldberg posts on it and the excerpt of the Tablet article he posted.<br /><br />Danger of the far away <br />- I read what I perceive as a very prominent voice and promptly take it for the whole because it synchs so well with my dislike for what my government does with NIF<br /><br /> (sounds confused? yes and it is, but it is also an example how news get synapsed at least in my brain - shame on me! - must stop to fear ...)<br /><br />SilkeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-39327253823715479012010-07-20T18:04:38.287+03:002010-07-20T18:04:38.287+03:00Silke: the Lithuanian diaspora, to my knowledge, i...Silke: the Lithuanian diaspora, to my knowledge, is more expressing concern than saying, "how dare they." So I guess the tone is different, but I still wouldn't call the Jewish Diaspora's response to the bill "interfering," since that implies that the Diaspora is taking action to block the bill, rather than just talking about it.Bryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09099017972456573744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-51770537480355026842010-07-20T16:43:34.832+03:002010-07-20T16:43:34.832+03:00I am refraining from comments until I get to look ...I am refraining from comments until I get to look at the Muqata article.<br /><br />Yaacov-<br /><br />welcome back. I hope you will give us a new post to continue this discussion.<br /><br />NycerbarbAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-46105842858397008412010-07-20T11:58:41.681+03:002010-07-20T11:58:41.681+03:00Bryan
As to your Lithuanian example: does their D...Bryan<br /><br />As to your Lithuanian example: does their Diaspora use the language of "how dare they?" or are they just fighting robustly for what they want?<br /><br />... as to open doors via sloppily done regulations:<br /><br />I remember that when Germany came up with it's guest worker recruitment programs there were warning voices some or the majority of which in the language still in use then may have sounded unsavoury and so helped bury the sound ones who warned about the flaws and pitfalls of the regulation?<br /><br />And it seemed such a wonderful idea, even once the Turks apparently were the most easy to recruit it turned out that they seemed to be really nice and fitting in well. So their numbers swelled, patch-up laws followed, the whole usual stuff. <br /><br />Would anybody have foreseen back then that a religion at odds with Christian dominated lands might one day lead to us having to clear piscinas of 70.000 visitors so family clans could do their fighting without endangering "civilians"? (by now it's happened 3 times in Berlin this summer, the police apparently unable to cope and in only 1 instant we have been told which group the fighters belong to, so in the other 2 instances they may have been fishermen from the Friesian isles)<br /><br />This is only the most drastic example I can come up with to support my point that sloppy regulation is very good at bolstering trouble at some point in the future.<br /><br />SilkeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-1863086375815249162010-07-20T11:34:52.549+03:002010-07-20T11:34:52.549+03:00Sylvia
sorry, misunderstanding:
my question was n...Sylvia<br />sorry, misunderstanding:<br /> my question was not about Israelis but about the Diaspora who have I believe the privilege of acquiring or holding a second citizenship and it was "inspired" by another post by Goldberg which I get as "how dare they".<br /><br />which reminds me btw of what Luther is said to have said (yes I know, but even an idiot sometimes gets something right). The saying goes according to Wiki quoting it from Martin Luther King like this (ain't the net a marvel?)<br /><br /><i>Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree.</i><br /><br />SilkeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-65086041873762957332010-07-20T04:42:50.088+03:002010-07-20T04:42:50.088+03:00You might want to read this Muqata article on the ...You might want to read this Muqata article on the subject. He provides first party sources too that clarify exactly what is being proposed and why.<br /><br /><a href="http://muqata.blogspot.com/2010/07/rotem-conversion-law.html" rel="nofollow">http://muqata.blogspot.com/2010/07/rotem-conversion-law.html</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-9485058055885819222010-07-20T04:07:38.580+03:002010-07-20T04:07:38.580+03:00Silke
Most people in Israel don't have dual n...Silke<br /><br />Most people in Israel don't have dual nationality. I certainly don't have dual nationality.Sylvianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-12942099439292290082010-07-20T03:27:50.400+03:002010-07-20T03:27:50.400+03:00it may be a very dumb and impertinent question I h...it may be a very dumb and impertinent question I have due to having read a bit about it now but so be it<br /><br />why is having the privilege of a second citizenship, a privilege I regard due to lots of experiences very high on my personal list of privileges, not enough reason for Diaspora Jews to support the state of Israel? i.e. why does there have to be more than that?<br /><br />SilkeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-24022405132465514832010-07-20T03:26:03.602+03:002010-07-20T03:26:03.602+03:00"Resulting in more people getting denied at t..."Resulting in more people getting denied at the marriage registrar, more chillul Hashem.)"<br /><br />My understanding is that the new law takes care of that point: once the conversion completed, the same Rabbi (who works for the Rabbinate) immediately registers the person for marriage. And once that's done, there is no going back.Sylvianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-2563303770434251422010-07-20T02:58:05.671+03:002010-07-20T02:58:05.671+03:00Rav Melchior didn't like it and if I recall co...Rav Melchior didn't like it and if I recall correctly, he didn't think it will pass. He said he worked in the past on a different version of that law with David Rotem but it didn't have the support of the Haredim.<br /><br />What I think is different this time is that the Rishon LeTzion thinks the situation is very serious. He who has never uttered a single word about politics is now attacking Netanyahu for caving before Bagatz. He is putting his reputation (with the Ashkenazi Haredim) on the line for this bill. <br /><br />I also have the feeling that Shas is going to start showing some muscle.<br /><br />David Rotem will probably try to pass it again after 9 Av if he has enough votes.Sylvianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-5423556273340758692010-07-20T01:08:30.051+03:002010-07-20T01:08:30.051+03:00Sylvia, out of interest, what did Rav Melchior hav...Sylvia, out of interest, what did Rav Melchior have to say about it?RKnoreply@blogger.com