tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post5200763325725147803..comments2024-01-01T01:47:59.449+02:00Comments on Yaacov Lozowick's Ruminations: Moshe Katzav, Israel's Democracy and the Far LeftYaacovhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12835192312242961481noreply@blogger.comBlogger50125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-51680751923825764362011-01-02T15:18:05.427+02:002011-01-02T15:18:05.427+02:00A man who throws a woman on the floor, tears off h...<i>A man who throws a woman on the floor, tears off her clothes, and forces sex onto her</i><br /><br />of all rape stories I've heard or come close to over the decades that variation wasn't included - <br /><br />it sounds like a description from a soft-porn turn-on novel but not like a description from real life.Silkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16383345395827271854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-67826367623506673022011-01-02T15:14:11.547+02:002011-01-02T15:14:11.547+02:00Here, Plaut claims the court papers outrightly adm...Here, Plaut claims the court papers outrightly admit the court <i>convicted Katsav of charges they knew he didn't commit (rape)</i> in order to circumvent the legal Statute of Limitations for a charge they thought he did commit (harassment):<br />http://stevenplaut.blogspot.com/2011_01_01_archive.html<br /><br />Yaacov wrote:<br />"My opinion now is that he had his day in a legitimate court, and was convicted."<br /><br />But what you are saying is that you are completely unconcerned that the court convicted a man of crimes he did not commit, by (according to Plaut) the court's own admission. It stinks to high heaven and is a stain on Israel.Pro-Zionistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-87441439696478848502011-01-02T14:44:58.116+02:002011-01-02T14:44:58.116+02:00Pro-
I have been hearing stories about Katzav'...Pro-<br /><br />I have been hearing stories about Katzav's exploits since the 1980s (!). In spite of that, as recently as last Thursday morning I had no opinion about the outcome of his trial one way or the other. My opinion now is that he had his day in a legitimate court, and was convicted. While it's conceivable that the conviction may be overturned in a higher court, until then he's legally a convicted criminal. Should he later be exonerated, that will also be because a court said so. Since I'm not a court, I see no reason to doubt the decision made by one. That's what citizens in democracies do: they accept verdicts of courts, unless they wish to go to another court to argue the matter. Innuendo, gossip, conspiracy theories - all these have no legal standing.<br /><br />And now it's time to end this very strange discussion.Yaacovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12835192312242961481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-82371740443731582292011-01-02T14:23:08.973+02:002011-01-02T14:23:08.973+02:00"So I"ll point out that in Israel, as in..."So I"ll point out that in Israel, as in most countries of the world, including most democratic ones, there's no such thing as trial by jury, nor has there ever been, nor is there any public demand to have such a system."<br /><br />I never said most countries had jury trials; I said the most advanced democratic countries consider a trial by jury to be a core human right in any serious criminal case.<br /><br />Further, what "most contries" consider a standard of behaviour is irrelevant to justice; at one time "most countries" considered Jews inferior, and many still do. So why do you cite "most countries"???<br /><br />I think you have made up your mind about Katsav on a basis of emotion rather than on the legal case, which was non-existent.Pro-Zionistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-13393329828970373822011-01-02T14:17:56.233+02:002011-01-02T14:17:56.233+02:00Yaacov
"That is a very serious allegation, w...Yaacov<br /><br />"That is a very serious allegation, worthy of the Guardian perhaps, but not acceptable unless you can provide lots of compelling evidence."<br /><br />You have inverted nornal jurisprudence; it was up to the prosecution to prove Katsav's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, with evidence and corroboration. It did not.<br /><br />"A statement by Yoram Sheftel won't suffice - even if he did say so, which I very much doubt."<br /><br />The link is given above. If you don't believe it, just contact him directly and ask for his full comments. Host a debate with him or a guest article in Hebrew, if you wish.<br /><br />Sheftel on Katsav:<br />http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/news.aspx/141444<br /><br />Sheftel on the Israeli judiciary's drift to political trials:<br />http://www.mypracticalphilosophy.com/shelp/speechisraelmain.htm<br />"Sheftel claimed that "the State Prosecution is becoming a pillar of the leftist camp. There must be a public reaction for this selection exercised by the Prosecution in putting people on trial for their political views.""Pro-Zionistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-2517267738096263552011-01-02T14:16:37.305+02:002011-01-02T14:16:37.305+02:00Pro -
I wouldn't even know where to begin, yo...Pro -<br /><br />I wouldn't even know where to begin, you've got so many of your facts wrong. So I"ll point out that in Israel, as in most countries of the world, including most democratic ones, there's no such thing as trial by jury, nor has there ever been, nor is there any public demand to have such a system.<br /><br />From there on your enumerations of "fact" gets ever weaker.Yaacovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12835192312242961481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-35535341700726931652011-01-02T14:12:40.311+02:002011-01-02T14:12:40.311+02:00Yaacov, you have completely missed the point. Sinc...Yaacov, you have completely missed the point. Since so many of my loony-left Israeli friends use the USA as a model of liberal democracy, I will use the USA as an example as well.<br /> <br />In this farcical trial of Katsav, the Israeli media and court managed to violate almost every standard of due process core to the US view of civilised law and human rights:<br /> <br />1. The accused has a right to a trial by a jury of his peers. This was violated as there was no jury.<br />2. The judges were not representative peers; there were no Separdim at all.<br />3. The accused has a right to a fair trial untainted by prejudicial publicity. But the pre-trial publicity against Katsav was massive.<br />4. In the USA the publicity would have been met with either a judicial gag order, or a change of venue, or both. But Israel is too small for a change of venue so th charges would have been dismissed.<br />5. The timing was beyond any reasonable statute of limitations.<br /><br />6. The accused has a right to confront (cross-examine) his accuser in open court. But the court was closed and I noticed no cross-examination.<br />7. Hearsay is not evidence. But the court admitted as so-called evidence, the accuser's ostensible statements to her friends. But the friends contradicted her, so the accuser's claims of statements to her friends should have been excluded as "evidence."<br />8. The main accuser went back to work for Katsav even after more than one claimed rape. No victim does that.<br />9. It was Katsav who brought the matter to the police. Actual perpetrators do not do that.<br />10. Not one of the accusations had forensic or medical corroboration.<br /><br />11. Not one of the accusations had witness corroboration.<br />13. The "victim" did not complain to the police at the time.<br />14. The "victim" did not make any administrative complaints at that time. (Union?)<br />15. The prosecution had earlier dismissed the "evidence" as insufficient. That is itself is enough for reasonable doubt and in the USA might have brought summary dismssal.<br /> <br />I have no doubt Katsav is a libidinous, lecherous skirt-chaser. But that is not criminal and does not merit conviction, much less incarceration. You may dismiss Sheftel as you will, but the above core issues of human rights are not so easily dismissed.<br /> <br />In the end, it is your (Israeli) problem to figure out why the Israeli judiciary engaged in such a farce -- whether mob pressure, or Katsavs politics, or Katsav's "race," or other problems. But you cannot so easily ignore the fact that it was a farce under any understanding of human rights.<br /> <br />For what it's worth, I'm generally leftist myself -- but a leftist with a conscience. <br /> <br />If the Israeli left insists upon such abominable tretment of the religious right, do not be surprised if you lose your last remaining foreign support, that of conservative, heretofore pro-Israeli Christians.Pro-Zionistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-9724275726456389902011-01-02T14:08:38.186+02:002011-01-02T14:08:38.186+02:00"so, if even his own lawyer cannot say straig...<i>"so, if even his own lawyer cannot say straight forward that his client is innocent, what do you want!? "</i><br /><br />In any modern, liberal, civilised society, it is not up to the defense to prove its client innocent or not; it is up to the prosecution to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt, via evidence, not simply uncorroborated accusation.<br /><br />But that's all there was in this case -- uncorroborated accusation.Pro-Zionistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-43873028259844887472011-01-02T13:55:17.220+02:002011-01-02T13:55:17.220+02:00Hmmm. Why is it less than convincing for a poster ...<i>Hmmm. Why is it less than convincing for a poster with a reference to Europe in his/her moniker (Peterthehungarian) to assure us that discrimination against Sephardim did not enter the picture -- especially when he goes on to trash Sephardi "culture"?</i><br /><br />If you read my comment you certainly would add an other thought - that I didn't "trash" any culture at all, I wrote that they are different but I don't give any grades to any of them. Falsely accusing your opponents with racism wouldn't make your point stronger only proves that you don't have any objective and convincing argument.<br /><br />The composition of the court is utterly irrelevant - if there is no judge of Hungarian origin in the court - could I claim that they can't consider my actions objectively? You guys are not serious.<br /><br />Rape is rape and against the law. No doubt that in the past there were politicians who were considered above it, but this happened a long time ago and the Israeli society has changed dramatically since then for the better. As an other poster said:<br /><i>really. we do not live in a time when yemenite children are kidnapped.</i><br /><br />That Yoram Sheftel has his own opinion is very welcome - we are living in a free country - but so what? Has he some heavenly authority?peterthehungariannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-43640966491809041762011-01-02T13:54:19.210+02:002011-01-02T13:54:19.210+02:00Rampant (and creative) conspiracy theorizing is on...Rampant (and creative) conspiracy theorizing is one of the main reasons why the Arab/Islamic world together with the FSU states Union (and assorted and diverse fellow travelers of each) are at the forefront of civilization (and an inspiration to all enlightened, intelligent and progressive humanity).<br /><br />Keep it up fellas!!Barry Meislinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04795125774426217113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-83452539550315093302011-01-02T12:33:53.345+02:002011-01-02T12:33:53.345+02:00Yaacov
"That is a very serious allegation, w...Yaacov<br /><br />"That is a very serious allegation, worthy of the Guardian perhaps, but not acceptable unless you can provide lots of compelling evidence."<br /><br />You have inverted normal jurisprudence; it was up to the prosecution to prove Katsav's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, with evidence and corroboration. It did not.<br /><br />"A statement by Yoram Sheftel won't suffice - even if he did say so, which I very much doubt."<br /><br />I gave the link, above. You're welcome to contact him directly and ask for his full comments. Host a debate with him or a guest article in Hebrew, if you wish.<br /><br />Sheftel on Katsav:<br />http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/news.aspx/141444<br /><br />Sheftel on the Israeli judiciary's drift to political trials:<br />http://www.mypracticalphilosophy.com/shelp/speechisraelmain.htm<br />"Sheftel claimed that "the State Prosecution is becoming a pillar of the leftist camp. There must be a public reaction for this selection exercised by the Prosecution in putting people on trial for their political views.""Just a Thoughtnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-57904144694200904882011-01-02T11:48:17.419+02:002011-01-02T11:48:17.419+02:00Yaacov, you have completely missed the point. Sinc...Yaacov, you have completely missed the point. Since so many of my loony-left Israeli friends use the USA as a model of liberal democracy, I will use the USA as an example as well.<br /><br />In this farcical trial of Katsav, the media and court managed to violate almost every standard of due process core to the US view of civilised law and human rights:<br /><br />1. The accused has a right to a trial by a jury of his peers. This was violated as there was no jury.<br />2. The judges were not representative peers; there were no Separdim at all.<br />3. The accused has a right to a fair trial untainted by prejudicial publicity. But the pre-trial publicity against Katsav was massive.<br />4. In the USA the publicity would have been met with either a judicial gag order, or a change of venue, or both. But Israel is too small for a change of venue so th charges would have been dismissed.<br />5. The timing was beyond any reasonable statute of limitations.<br />6. The accused has a right to confront (cross-examine) his accuser in open court. But the court was closed and I noticed no cross-examination.<br />7. Hearsay is not evidence. But the court admitted as so-called evidence, the accuser's ostensible statements to her friends. But the friends contradicted her, so the accuser's claims of statements to her friends should have been excluded as "evidence."<br />8. The main accuser went back to work for Katsav even after more than one claimed rape. No victim does that.<br />9. It was Katsav who brought the matter to the police. Actual perpetrators do not do that.<br />10. Not one of the accusations had forensic or medical corroboration.<br />11. Not one of the accusations had witness corroboration.<br />12. The prosecution had earlier dismissed the "evidence" as insufficient. That is itself is enough for reasonable doubt and in the USA might have brought summary dismssal.<br /><br />I have no doubt Katsav is a libidinous, lecherous skirt-chaser. But that is not criminal and does not merit conviction, much less incarceration. You may dismiss Sheftel as you will, but the above core issues of human rights are not so easily dismissed.<br /><br />In the end, it is your (Israeli) problem to figure out why the Israeli judiciary engaged in such a farce -- whether mob pressure, or Katsavs politics, or Katsav's "race," or other problems. But you cannot so easily ignore the fact that it was a farce under any understanding of human rights.<br /><br />For what it's worth, I'm generally leftist myself -- but a leftist with a conscience. <br /><br />If the Israeli left insists upon such abominations, do not be surprised if you lose your last remaining foreign support, that of conervative, heretofore pro-Israeli Christians.Just a Thoughtnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-88478107629268045122011-01-02T11:36:40.524+02:002011-01-02T11:36:40.524+02:00Haaretz: 'When asked whether he really believe...Haaretz: 'When asked whether he really believed that his client was innocent, Feldman declared: "When Moshe Katsav decided to reject the plea bargain, it was clear that he was heading toward a vicious battle… but he decided to do it. I say that it looks like he has been guided by his conscience."'<br /><br />that i lawyer gibberish for "no, but i cannot say so".<br /><br />so, if even his own lawyer cannot say straight forward that his client is innocent, what do you want!?Zionist Juicenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-6353656767664558162011-01-02T11:25:40.294+02:002011-01-02T11:25:40.294+02:00NB: I think my sarcasm is obvious...NB: I think my sarcasm is obvious...Zionist Juicenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-91571254547456344142011-01-02T11:24:48.176+02:002011-01-02T11:24:48.176+02:00Natanyahu: “Today the court conveyed two clear-cut...Natanyahu: “Today the court conveyed two clear-cut messages, that all are equal before the law and that every woman has exclusive rights to her body.”<br /><br />he must be part of the leftist elders of zion of israel too,<br />or they just pay him, huh, NormanF Just a thought!!<br /><br />Why do people from America called NormanF have so mean oppinions about Israel?Zionist Juicenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-11113749507565867712011-01-02T10:53:30.558+02:002011-01-02T10:53:30.558+02:00@ just a thought
you say
"The general proble...@ just a thought<br /><br />you say<br />"The general problems of macho Israeli males or corrupt politicians are irrelevant to any particular defendant such as Katsav, since it is the responsibility of the prosecution to prove the guilt beyond reasonable doubt of the particular individual, not of the general class of "Israeli males" or "Israeli politicians." A defendant such as Katsav cannot be convicted simply because he belongs to the general class of "Israeli males" or "Israeli politicians."<br /><br />before to you he was convicted because he was a rightist and/or a sfardi.<br />know you go even further, and say he was convicted because he was an israeli male.<br /><br />wow. you really hang yourself out here.<br /><br />loyalty is a nice thing.<br />but if loyalty is blind that get to really bad places.Zionist Juicenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-83559028718988716982011-01-02T10:04:50.127+02:002011-01-02T10:04:50.127+02:00Just a thought and fellow conspiracy commentors: E...Just a thought and fellow conspiracy commentors: Enough. You've made your point.<br /><br />Katsav wasn't sentenced for being Sepharadi, nor for being a Likudnik. He was convicted of repeatedly attacking women who were his direct subordinates in various offices over a period of many years. These attacks included the use of force, intimidation, and in some cases, simply violence. A man who throws a woman on the floor, tears off her clothes, and forces sex onto her, is a beast, irrespective of his political identity. When he does this repeatedly, over many years, he's a serial rapist.<br /><br />The only way for your claims to be possible is to assume Israel's courts are willing to concoct evidence for political purposes, as a court in Russia recently proved it does. That is a very serious allegation, worthy of the Guardian perhaps, but not acceptable unless you can provide lots of compelling evidence. A statement by Yoram Sheftel won't suffice - even if he did say so, which I very much doubt.<br /><br />If you persist, I may need to shut down comments on this thread, a step I've never taken before.Yaacovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12835192312242961481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-13857854476974998922011-01-02T09:47:25.852+02:002011-01-02T09:47:25.852+02:00Zionist Juice and Avi have quite typically failed ...Zionist Juice and Avi have quite typically failed to debate the actual evidence -- or, more accurately, the lack thereof. Sheftel, a trained lawyer, examined the dossier in detail and found no evidence.<br /><br />The general problems of macho Israeli males or corrupt politicians are irrelevant to any particular defendant such as Katsav, since it is the responsibility of the prosecution to prove the guilt beyond reasonable doubt of the particular individual, not of the general class of "Israeli males" or "Israeli politicians." A defendant such as Katsav cannot be convicted simply because he belongs to the general class of "Israeli males" or "Israeli politicians."<br /><br />But Zionist Juice and Avi have quite typically substituted the entire class for an examination of the actual evidence -- or, more accurately, the lack thereof. Sheftel, a trained lawyer, examined the dossier in detail and found no evidence.<br /><br />The trial itself, and the defenders of it, are engaging in motzi shem ra, itself an evil.Just a Thoughtnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-77879230218169059612011-01-02T08:33:08.572+02:002011-01-02T08:33:08.572+02:00I am amazed at some of the comments here and the i...I am amazed at some of the comments here and the ignorance that they show of the complexities and realities of Israeli society. <br /><br />One of the problems with the legal system and its practitioners is that they have added public relations and advertising skills to their legal practices. The basic strategy is "don't confuse me with the facts".<br /><br />I am glad to live in country where my daughters have the protection of the law against such powerful and evil sexual predators. Over the years things seem to moving in the right direction in the army and in public in protecting women from powerful men.<br /><br />The decision on Katzav will not eradicate this sort of behaviour from society as human beings are human, but it does mean that they will be prevented from carrying on their disgusting and evil habits and protect other victims.<br /><br />The fact that over the past 30 years many of the convicted politicians in corruption and sexual cases seem to have come from the right of centre (not that I am sure it is true, the other commentators seem to be referring to feelings rather than facts) is the fact that the right wing parties have been in power for more or less the whole time (35 out of the last 43 years) so they are the ones with the opportunity to get their hands into the till.Avi from Jerusalemnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-32198838923023054882011-01-02T08:06:45.471+02:002011-01-02T08:06:45.471+02:00NB: and it is quite disgusting to to take side of ...NB: and it is quite disgusting to to take side of a rapist because he shares some political value.<br /><br />this complaining about racism if convicted is so common. <br />i remember some shas guy being sentenced for some economical crime saying that he was just sentenced because he is marroccan (he should get an extra year for that).<br /><br /><br />really. we do not live in a time when yemenite children are kidnapped.Zionist Juicenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-81468103428065182012011-01-02T07:59:48.420+02:002011-01-02T07:59:48.420+02:00to me it seems, that some of the commentators here...to me it seems, that some of the commentators here are suffering from רגשי נחיתותZionist Juicenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-33144321936710432352011-01-02T07:19:23.158+02:002011-01-02T07:19:23.158+02:00Peter H-
Please keep in mind that Ezer Weizeman (y...Peter H-<br />Please keep in mind that Ezer Weizeman (year 2000) and Yitzhak Rabin (1977) both held jobs that Shimon Peres was telling everyone quite openly that he wanted. They were classic cases of the "get something on him" syndrome.<br />All people that start out in the Likud are fair game, even if they go over to the Left in order to save themselves. Good examples are Hirshenson, Omri Sharon, Tzachi HaNegbi and Yitzhak Mordechai. Mordechai was like Ramon, the charges of sexual harassment (why not rape?) were made against him even thought the woman involved tried to annul the charges.<br /><br />Again, I not saying they are all being framed, I AM saying that if they were life-long MERETZ or Labor people, they never would be charged in the first place, no matter what they did.Y. Ben-Davidnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-74815868882516643552011-01-02T06:39:46.867+02:002011-01-02T06:39:46.867+02:00Apologies for the duplicates (due to technical mal...Apologies for the duplicates (due to technical malfunction).Just a Thoughtnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-5761065651387083252011-01-02T06:37:25.115+02:002011-01-02T06:37:25.115+02:00Hmmm. Why is it less than convincing for a poster ...Hmmm. Why is it less than convincing for a poster with a reference to Europe in his/her moniker (Peterthehungarian) to assure us that discrimination against Sephardim did not enter the picture -- especially when he goes on to trash Sephardi "culture"?<br /><br /><i>"the ancestral origin of jailed politicians has few connection to the composition of the courts"</i><br /><br />That's obvious nonsense. The Supreme Court has a single Sephardic judge (of nine) and the court which convicted Katsav had no Sephardim at all. The same left which insists disparate numbers to indicate discrimination, apparently is hypocritically incapable of applying the same logic to the institutions it rules with an iron fist.<br /><br />Quite searing observations about this farcical show trial have been made by two well-known Israelis:<br /><br />Prominent Israeli attorney Yoram Sheftel <br />http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/news.aspx/141444<br /><br />Maariv Deputy editor Ben Dror Yemini<br />http://zioncon.blogspot.com/2010/12/maarivs-yemini-on-katsav-affair.htmlYemini<br /><br />Sheftel pointed out, "There is no evidence to back up the accusations."<br /><br />Yemini pointed out:<br /><br />http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/31/AR2010123101558.html<br /><i>"One of the few dissenting voices was Ben-Dror Yemini, a columnist for the daily Maariv, who accused the judges of caving into hostile media coverage of Katsav and partly acting on prejudice against Jews of Middle Eastern origin. <br />Katsav was born in Iran and grew up in a poor Israeli town, becoming a young mayor and a political success story before his spectacular fall from grace. <b>Many critics in Israel see the legal system as representing a secular elite dominated by Israelis of European origin and liberal views. "The contempt and loathing were already there," Yemini wrote. "Katsav is not one of our own. Katsav is the other, the stranger who occupied a role he had no business taking."</b></i><br /><br />The whole matter is the revenge the elitist, white, secular, socialist, racist Israeli leftist political mafia are taking against an upstart, moderately religious, Likudnik Mizrahi -- Katsav -- who dared displace an Ashkenazi leftist, Peres, from the Presidency.<br /><br />It also confirms a pattern of the Israeli left pursuing a vile, hate-filled obsession with suppresing Jews who are religious or politically conservative.<br /><br />The Slonim trial was a farce, a blood libel against the Slonim; a judiciary which doesn't even jail seditious Israeli Arabs, trumped up reasons to jail frum Jews.<br /><br />Hilonim just had to maliciously march into Mea Shearim to force the religious to abandon even a single day of street separation of men and women, for the holiday. Why couldn't the hilonim have left Mea Shearim alone?<br /><br />And now, an ex-President faces 50 years of jail on a trumped-up charge simply because he is a politically-conservative, moderately-religious Mizrahi. <br /><br />Israel's show trials of the religious, must stop; they are an unpleasant echo of anti-Semitic show trials under the Tsars, under Stalin, and in many Muslim countries.Just a Thoughtnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-27457454628595088592011-01-02T06:35:21.002+02:002011-01-02T06:35:21.002+02:00Hmmm. Why is it less than convincing for a poster ...Hmmm. Why is it less than convincing for a poster with a reference to Europe in his/her moniker (Peterthehungarian) to assure us that discrimination against Sephardim did not enter the picture -- especially when he goes on to trash Sephardi "culture"?<br /><br /><i>"the ancestral origin of jailed politicians has few connection to the composition of the courts"</i><br /><br />That's obvious nonsense. The Supreme Court has a single Sephardic judge (of nine) and the court which convicted Katsav had no Sephardim at all. The same left which insists disparate numbers to indicate discrimination, apparently is hypocritically incapable of applying the same logic to the institutions it rules with an iron fist.<br /><br />Quite searing observations about this farcical show trial have been made by two well-known Israelis:<br /><br />Prominent Israeli attorney Yoram Sheftel <br />http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/news.aspx/141444<br /><br />Maariv Deputy editor Ben Dror Yemini<br />http://zioncon.blogspot.com/2010/12/maarivs-yemini-on-katsav-affair.htmlYemini<br /><br />Sheftel pointed out, "There is no evidence to back up the accusations."<br /><br />Yemini pointed out:<br /><br />http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/31/AR2010123101558.html<br /><i>"One of the few dissenting voices was Ben-Dror Yemini, a columnist for the daily Maariv, who accused the judges of caving into hostile media coverage of Katsav and partly acting on prejudice against Jews of Middle Eastern origin. <br />Katsav was born in Iran and grew up in a poor Israeli town, becoming a young mayor and a political success story before his spectacular fall from grace. <b>Many critics in Israel see the legal system as representing a secular elite dominated by Israelis of European origin and liberal views. "The contempt and loathing were already there," Yemini wrote. "Katsav is not one of our own. Katsav is the other, the stranger who occupied a role he had no business taking."</b></i><br /><br />The whole matter is the revenge the elitist, white, secular, socialist, racist Israeli leftist political mafia are taking against an upstart, moderately religious, Likudnik Mizrahi -- Katsav -- who dared displace an Ashkenazi leftist, Peres, from the Presidency.<br /><br />It also confirms a pattern of the Israeli left pursuing a vile, hate-filled obsession with suppresing Jews who are religious or politically conservative.<br /><br />The Slonim trial was a farce, a blood libel against the Slonim; a judiciary which doesn't even jail seditious Israeli Arabs, trumped up reasons to jail frum Jews.<br /><br />Hilonim just had to maliciously march into Mea Shearim to force the religious to abandon even a single day of street separation of men and women, for the holiday. Why couldn't the hilonim have left Mea Shearim alone?<br /><br />And now, an ex-President faces 50 years of jail on a trumped-up charge simply because he is a politically-conservative, moderately-religious Mizrahi. <br /><br />Israel's show trials of the religious, must stop; they are an unpleasant echo of anti-Semitic show trials under the Tsars, under Stalin, and in many Muslim countries.Just a Thoughtnoreply@blogger.com