tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post915605254528355595..comments2024-01-01T01:47:59.449+02:00Comments on Yaacov Lozowick's Ruminations: Gaza, Goldstone, and Freedom of SpeechYaacovhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12835192312242961481noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-36385983891554098612010-02-02T11:27:32.083+02:002010-02-02T11:27:32.083+02:00The idea is to get foreigners so angry at Israel t...<i>The idea is to get foreigners so angry at Israel that Israelis will feel the need to change governments and elect a party like Meretz.</i><br /><br />Um, no.<br /><br />"The idea is to get foreigners so angry that" when Israel is fighting for its life (whenever, not if, this will occur) and is within range of obliteration, such "angry foreigners" will be cheering for it to happen.<br /><br />It is called "deligitimization".<br /><br />What has been happening, globally, stoked by progressive humanity, together with their Islamist (and Neonazi) confederates, and spread, happily, by the Media, is the equivalent of Nazis making films of Jews interposed with juicy footage of poverty, filth and scurrying rats. <br /><br />The best-case scenario is that should Israel be destroyed, such "angry foreigners" will say, "It's a shame that this (i.e., the very thing they had been cheering) had to happen... but Israel had it coming".Barry Meislinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04795125774426217113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-60342265423458075052010-02-02T07:23:57.992+02:002010-02-02T07:23:57.992+02:00I think that the outward aim is only superficial. ...I think that the outward aim is only superficial. The idea is to get foreigners so angry at Israel that Israelis will feel the need to change governments and elect a party like Meretz. The self-absorbed character of the Israeli NGOs--and their confidence in Israel's strength--is probably a symptom of democracy. To those who see a real threat to Israel from its enemies, the activities of these NGOs and Goldstone serves to make clear the threat and to reinforce support for conservative governments dedicated to insuring that Israel can defend itself. Such is the dialectic that is playing out.Edward Halperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07941908390246091592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-90563088539490352322010-02-02T03:36:50.586+02:002010-02-02T03:36:50.586+02:00The left's obsession with WP goes back at leas...The left's obsession with WP goes back at least to Fallujah. Perhaps it extends back to Viet Nam?<br />In either case, Russia's use of WP smoke shells during the battle for Grozny seems to have been of somewhat less interest.<br />http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/1995/grozny.htmAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-86513146403853968332010-02-02T02:19:49.137+02:002010-02-02T02:19:49.137+02:00The phosphorus business continues to bamboozle me,...The phosphorus business continues to bamboozle me, people on the left are just obsessed with it to the extent of fanaticism. The report doesn't say that the General and Colonel were discplined for using WP, it says they were disciplined for authorising the use of explosive shells. Haaretz are plain wrong, they read from the report only what they wanted to see. <br /><br />(ref paragraphs 100 and 108, one assumes they were also firing HE rounds as well as smoke in the same action)<br /><br />I read the reports on the use of WP in the Goldstone report, after researching how the smoke shells work, and the only deaths from WP I could find in the report that were consistent with the physical behaviour of those smoke rounds were people being hit by the falling shell casing. This WP obsession is truly bizarre.<br /><br />GavinGavinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-83665816990986188632010-02-01T22:27:44.425+02:002010-02-01T22:27:44.425+02:00sorry for the double click.
Nycerbarbsorry for the double click.<br /><br />NycerbarbAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-59096452776483880632010-02-01T22:26:42.357+02:002010-02-01T22:26:42.357+02:00Yaacov -
Thank you for the challenge. My Hebrew ...Yaacov -<br /><br />Thank you for the challenge. My Hebrew is good enough to read the report, but not very quickly.<br /><br />But because you challenged me, I checked out the Im Tirzu English website. So I was surprised to learn that anti-Zionism is even a problem on Israeli campuses.<br /><br />I do think this story about NIF and the NGO funding is important, as is the work of Im Tirzu, so I sent a letter to my local Jewish newspaper, telling them to give it some coverage. (cc'd you)<br /><br />As for Im Tirzu's report, it leaves me more confused. I looked at pp. 24-28, that deal specifically with Adalah and Shovrim Shtika. In the sections "Central Citations in the Goldstone Report," Im Tirzu list things like "Accused IDF soldiers of violence." Did the Goldstone report accuse Israel of war crimes based on the accusations NGO's without further inquiry? Or does Goldstone give a reason theses accusations are credible? Does Im Tirzu or anyone say why these accusations are not credible?<br /><br />NycerbarbAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-91585830902051895232010-02-01T22:26:41.691+02:002010-02-01T22:26:41.691+02:00Yaacov -
Thank you for the challenge. My Hebrew ...Yaacov -<br /><br />Thank you for the challenge. My Hebrew is good enough to read the report, but not very quickly.<br /><br />But because you challenged me, I checked out the Im Tirzu English website. So I was surprised to learn that anti-Zionism is even a problem on Israeli campuses.<br /><br />I do think this story about NIF and the NGO funding is important, as is the work of Im Tirzu, so I sent a letter to my local Jewish newspaper, telling them to give it some coverage. (cc'd you)<br /><br />As for Im Tirzu's report, it leaves me more confused. I looked at pp. 24-28, that deal specifically with Adalah and Shovrim Shtika. In the sections "Central Citations in the Goldstone Report," Im Tirzu list things like "Accused IDF soldiers of violence." Did the Goldstone report accuse Israel of war crimes based on the accusations NGO's without further inquiry? Or does Goldstone give a reason theses accusations are credible? Does Im Tirzu or anyone say why these accusations are not credible?<br /><br />NycerbarbAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-18865843043937063912010-02-01T17:31:34.951+02:002010-02-01T17:31:34.951+02:00Look how the BBC reports on Israel's response ...Look how the BBC reports on Israel's response to the Goldstone Report: <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8491444.stm" rel="nofollow">The 'explosive admission' in Israel's Gaza report</a>. You can't win.David Boxenhornhttp://www.rishon-rishon.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-56869514670785655912010-02-01T16:33:04.758+02:002010-02-01T16:33:04.758+02:00I don't know if you read Hebrew, Nycerbarb, bu...I don't know if you read Hebrew, Nycerbarb, but if you do, the Im Tirtsu reports details each and every one of the relevant footnotes, so you can judge for yourself.Yaacovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12835192312242961481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-88086588904954271572010-02-01T16:29:49.515+02:002010-02-01T16:29:49.515+02:00The question is what is the nature of those 191 cr...The question is what is the nature of those 191 critical statements. Are they lies? Misinformation? Hearsay? Opinion? Support for the 17 from MFA? Eyewitness testimony?<br /><br />Of course the discussion should be open. If the NGO's tell lies, it should be exposed. If the NGO's say Israel must be accountable, then the NGO's must be accountable as well.<br /><br />NycerbarbAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-42641092417827577322010-02-01T15:06:11.352+02:002010-02-01T15:06:11.352+02:00On the other hand, donors to NIF should know to wh...On the other hand, donors to NIF should know to what they are donating.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-64275132498191689832010-02-01T15:04:44.330+02:002010-02-01T15:04:44.330+02:00On a happier note
http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/...On a happier note<br />http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1146631.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-75292956943044105692010-02-01T14:51:36.987+02:002010-02-01T14:51:36.987+02:00I can understand appointing a commission to questi...I can understand appointing a commission to question the politicians and perhapsthe top officers. But will even that be enough? As the IDf/MFA report points out, criminal investigations of the military in the leading democracies is carried out by the military. But Goldstone questioned the independence of the Israeli military investigations and seemed to demand more.<br />t34zakatAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-48461908690477110092010-02-01T14:34:32.261+02:002010-02-01T14:34:32.261+02:00"Had they only done their watchdog task in He..."Had they only done their watchdog task in Hebrew, I'd be applauding them. But, as I've often noted, much of their activity isn't aimed at their own society, it's aimed outwards."<br /><br />complicated yes - because if they publish it only in Hebrew you'll get accused of being clannish and backwards (the don't even speak English over there Ha Ha) - "they"'ll always find something <br />... and I listened for some time to a very nice Israeli podcast by an American couple who said quite openly that their Hebrew was poor while at the same time they considered themselves whole-heartedly Israelis - so maybe you are an (at minmum) bi-lingual country.<br /><br />to say who said what and gets his research funded by whom and if possible is "married" to so-and-so are facts which should be widely and easily available <br /><br />- here is a non-Israeli example which I wish I had more facts to understand because it seems somewhat strange: while the US-op-ed-writers indulge in a competition of self-flagellation about US-mistakes in Haiti mentioning France if at all only in a half-sentence. this British one goes after France in full battle-gear (and rather convinces me) but: does it matter that he presently has a book to promote or is this just a more than usual outspoken example of the British bias for putting down the French? and why are the Americans so mum about it?<br />http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/ben_macintyre/article6995750.ece<br />SilkeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-55508291490536248002010-02-01T14:13:48.140+02:002010-02-01T14:13:48.140+02:00For those who haven't seen it yet this is the ...For those who haven't seen it yet this is the first report just handed to Ban:<br />http://haaretz.com/hasite/images/iht_daily/D290110/Gaza%20Operation%20Investigations%20An%20Update.pdf<br /><br />There is supposed to be another more detailed one onthe way. I give up trying to figure out which Harel is referring to.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com