tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post479063101513797281..comments2024-01-01T01:47:59.449+02:00Comments on Yaacov Lozowick's Ruminations: Palestinians Condemning MurderYaacovhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12835192312242961481noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-74599269481091509892016-05-01T01:45:52.614+03:002016-05-01T01:45:52.614+03:00I got to this post while looking for something els...I got to this post while looking for something else, and read it thru before realizing that it has aged five years.<br />Could you comment on the relevance/irrelevance of your post to the current situation? <br /><br />I perceive signs of grass-roots dialogue that either may or not be developing?<br /><br />Do you think I am venting wishful thinking? Or do you share my thoughts?Jack Breslerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13253808718836395820noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-89332777730324333922011-03-23T18:58:51.181+02:002011-03-23T18:58:51.181+02:00NormanF said...
Morey, the young Arabs
Israe...NormanF said...<br /><br /> Morey, the young <i>Arabs</i> <br />Israelis <br />grow up on nothing but a steady diet of <i>Jew</i>Arab-hatred and de-legitimization of <i>Israel</i> Palestina. The older generation has had some personal experience of contact with <i>Jews</i>Arabs to know the propaganda is false but the young have nothing to tell them it isn't true.<br /><br />What's so amazing about this, is the baseless self0victimisation comcommitant with a steady eradication of everything Palestine.<br /><br />It's a bit like this:<br />===<br />"I'm a poor helpless victim", said the Israeli soldier, while he gunned down another batch of about 15 Palestinian children.<br />====The Steel Generalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00776361829632450749noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-64007502858841460922011-03-18T17:29:55.114+02:002011-03-18T17:29:55.114+02:00Yaacov: you point conjecture three
second sentence...Yaacov: you point conjecture three<br />second sentence first clause. Will<br />your desire a wish emanating: your<br />failure apprehending shadow side a<br />failure appreciating Arab human do<br />succeed if and only when? Obstacle<br />overcome overruling Ra sun god who<br />continue forgetting Yosef. Balance<br />you struck strike now may or not I<br />believe parallel Arab Muslim grief<br />transmuted in our Israel interest:<br />more equity more justice community<br />less happiness freedom individual.<br />Cardo sales (what next: Jesus oil)<br />outstrip viability trinket sales:<br />so I believe Arab kings emirs bad<br />rulers must pay damages building:<br />our undivided eternal capital for<br />to benefit all humans acknowledge<br />Israel devotee temporal temporary<br />always sovereign sowing shmitah a<br />discharge of synthetic CDOs. Amen.<br />Muslims revenge kinds minds small?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-74117879912195477192011-03-18T08:12:04.060+02:002011-03-18T08:12:04.060+02:00I live in Nokdim in the Gush Etzion block. The rel...I live in Nokdim in the Gush Etzion block. The relations between some of the local Arabs and some of the local Jews are cordial and at times friendly. While there are unquestionably Arabs who would like to harm Jews, there are others who are decent people who want to live in peace.Aryehnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-62703077886484135332011-03-17T19:08:14.700+02:002011-03-17T19:08:14.700+02:00Interesting piece by Larry Derfner on Itamar and t...Interesting piece by Larry Derfner on Itamar and the Palestinian reaction: http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Article.aspx?id=212479<br /><br />Kind regards, AndréAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-25604658885998093752011-03-17T13:41:05.327+02:002011-03-17T13:41:05.327+02:00Hmmm. Here's something a tad less hopeful:
ht...Hmmm. Here's something a tad less hopeful:<br /><br />http://www.jpost.com/Headlines/Article.aspx?id=212562<br /><br />(Which probably means it should be suppressed.)Barry Meislinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04795125774426217113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-43011839492184883452011-03-17T04:01:04.985+02:002011-03-17T04:01:04.985+02:00I thought that this video was one of the most hope...I thought that this video was one of the most hopeful and reconciling things I've seen in a long time.<br /><br />As for Sherwood - she is an utter fool that for some reason was sent to wander around like a village idiot in the most complex area in the world. Probably to get her out of London at any cost.AKUShttp://cifwatch.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-31619926273345415542011-03-16T19:40:02.143+02:002011-03-16T19:40:02.143+02:00I think Danny has put his finger on it. After all,...I think Danny has put his finger on it. After all, there is much hatred and mutual suspicion within the Arab/Muslim world but it doesn't always degenerate to violence. For example there is the Shi'ite-Sunni split. They lived together for years in Iraq under Saddam's iron-fisted rule. When he fell, some extremists managed to inflame the populations against each other. Even in times of peace, I am sure people of different groups could get together, drink coffee and talk. Unstated, but obvious to all involved was the fact that "the groups we belong to hate each other but neither of us is in a position to kill the other, so we might as well enjoy ourselves for the moment".<br />The place to watch now is Libya. No matter whether Qaddafi succeeds in suppressing the revolt, a lot of arms have gotten into the hands of the population and they may start using it to settle personal scores, as happened in Somalia when Siad Barre's regime collapsed in the 1990's.Y. Ben-Davidnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-29339793311070066972011-03-16T17:42:56.000+02:002011-03-16T17:42:56.000+02:00There is another possibility: That they are afraid...There is another possibility: That they are afraid of the consequences, e.g. closures, or war; or even just more building. Or, put another way, maybe they think that Israel is the strong horse?Dannynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-58528800720280846792011-03-16T16:37:43.748+02:002011-03-16T16:37:43.748+02:00I'm not quite so pessimistic. Young Arabs have...I'm not quite so pessimistic. Young Arabs have also been exposed to Israeli and foreign media, the internet, popular culture; many work with Israelis. The majority aren't so unsophisticated that they can't recognize Islamic rhetoric for what it is (even if a minority are manipulated by it). The real truth of the matter is that for decades, going back before 1948, the Palestinians have been overwhelmingly and even at times unexpectedly ambivalent. That could work, in theory, in Israel's favour; if we we weren't so damn indecisive when it came to making some very hard decisions. Which has permitted both Arab and Israeli interest groups to set the agenda (sometimes by default). But don't give up just yet. I haven't.Morey Altmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15886157582583010411noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-47589123601436003942011-03-16T16:20:36.189+02:002011-03-16T16:20:36.189+02:00Morey, the young Arabs grow up on nothing but a st...Morey, the young Arabs grow up on nothing but a steady diet of Jew-hatred and de-legitimization of Israel. The older generation has had some personal experience of contact with Jews to know the propaganda is false but the young have nothing to tell them it isn't true.<br /><br />That's another reason we won't have peace in our future any time soon. And Ed makes a good point that Western anti-Semitism helps to sustain the moral corruption and intransigence evident in the PA.<br /><br />Therefore in our lifetime, given all of the above, only one conclusion can be affirmed: peace is not just difficult it is in truth impossible to achieve with the Palestinian Arabs and for that matter with the entire Arab World as well.NormanFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03365459073293643108noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-32595172162916239332011-03-16T15:34:33.495+02:002011-03-16T15:34:33.495+02:00There's one more lesson to be drawn: the intra...There's one more lesson to be drawn: the intransigence of the PA leadership in negotiation is aided and, perhaps, sustained by one-sided Western condemnations of Israel.Ed Halpernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-31389468133464335612011-03-16T14:51:20.360+02:002011-03-16T14:51:20.360+02:00Yaacov,
My sense, for what it's worth, is that...Yaacov,<br />My sense, for what it's worth, is that the average West Bank Arab may oppose settlements, and may even repudiate Jewish nationalism as a whole, but is not prepared to dehumanize Jews to the extant that the radical Left and Islamic clergy has done. And I suspect this is because the willingness to dehumanize was predisposed and not at all a result of the settlements, as some of these radicals attempt to suggest. In fact, the whole idea is an affront to rational thought, that political opposition to Jews settling in the West Bank should logically provoke not simply protestations but rather brutal and vicious behaviour. I'll leave why they are so predisposed for the psychologists and historians but I have a few theories. <br /><br />moreyaltman.blogspot.comMorey Altmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15886157582583010411noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-90022376051171221682011-03-16T14:21:29.094+02:002011-03-16T14:21:29.094+02:00The Palestinians condemn the murder on instrumenta...The Palestinians condemn the murder on instrumental grounds, not out of moral principle.<br /><br />The fact they're doing economically well means nothing. Their society is infected by deep Jew hatred.<br /><br />Nazi Germany was also economically prosperous and it still hated and persecuted the Jews.<br /><br />The bottom line is Ya'acov, without a fundamental transformation in Palestinian society of a moral and humane nature, peace is going to be impossible, no matter how well off they are.<br /><br />You're are measuring their supposed health by the wrong yardstick! I'm really surprised at your naivete. Consider the following: if society isn't morally healthy, it won't be a democracy, it won't be a conscientious society and it won't be a society that would keep agreements it makes with its neighbors.<br /><br />The PA and Hamas as we have seen over the past weekend, are none on all three counts. There won't be peace with the Palestinian Arabs in our lifetime.NormanFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03365459073293643108noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-88574990767843771032011-03-16T13:05:13.180+02:002011-03-16T13:05:13.180+02:00Interesting. Only time will tell.
I have heard fir...Interesting. Only time will tell.<br />I have heard first-hand from someone who lives in a settlment near Hevron that relations between the Jews of the area (Hevron, Kiryat Arba and the neighboring communities) have been slowly restored with the Arabs of Hevron. They had existed prior to Oslo, but the "peace process" destroyed them. There is a considerable amount of business going on.....Hevron has light industry that is seeking Israeli markets and the Jews of the area serve as middle men. One popular product produced are shoes and sandals.<br /><br />Now, people have claimed that ecnomic ties are a "sure-fire" prescription against war and conflict, forgetting, for example, that international trade reached a peak in 1914 and yet, just then, Europe's leaders decided to embark on World War I. Still, the normalization that Yaacov described is encouraging. All I can add is that removing the settlements would upset this very stability because it would then play into the hands of the extremists, who would then again claim "you see , they are weak, they are destroying their own communities without us forcing them out so if we keep up the pressure, they will eventually flee Tel Aviv"!. The settlements are the only guarantee for peace.Y. Ben-Davidnoreply@blogger.com