tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post492603562866343152..comments2024-01-01T01:47:59.449+02:00Comments on Yaacov Lozowick's Ruminations: Israel-Palestine: the Emerging Reality on the GroundYaacovhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12835192312242961481noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-83809395487660476912011-01-17T20:02:32.309+02:002011-01-17T20:02:32.309+02:00It should be pointed out to him that the US would ...It should be pointed out to him that the US would strongly support Israeli even if there were no Jews in the US. There was strong American support for Zionism as far back as the 1840's, long before the "Jewish vote" had any weight in the US. Note how these propagandists use false information because all they are doing is grasping at straws.Y. Ben-Davidnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-35528690995312058992011-01-17T19:20:08.247+02:002011-01-17T19:20:08.247+02:00Mr. Anon Lebensraum
how ingenious you are, how wi...Mr. Anon <i>Lebensraum</i><br /><br />how ingenious you are, how witty, how knowledgeable, got some more of those filthy asses up your sleeve?<br /><br />it is not only your use of inappropriate language with putrid insinuations I object to, it is your implied threats, either you behave and become our sweet little Disney Land providing us with sentimental holidays in Jerusalem or we'll turn away from you. <br /><br />Shame on you for your lack of respect for a sovereign state and you presumably are a citizen of the land of the free, how very shameful. If you were European I'd find your behaviour normal in the sense of frequent but since you are not it is in violation of all I've always admired about Americans.Silkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16383345395827271854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-63204507193191746612011-01-17T19:12:56.413+02:002011-01-17T19:12:56.413+02:00Lebensraum. Reservation program. You've been r...Lebensraum. Reservation program. You've been reading Andrew Sullivan, haven't you, Anonymous. You've come to the right place.Avigdorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05008730229882004376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-36878314891042949452011-01-17T18:45:25.887+02:002011-01-17T18:45:25.887+02:00What matters for Israel now is the moral high grou...What matters for Israel now is the moral high ground, not the literal high ground. Israel has so far out-run the regional military competitors at this point that only its erstwhile ally, the United States can threaten it. <br /><br />Main stream American Jews will not defend Israel for long as the reservation program becomes clear. Losing their support will mean losing the entire game.<br /><br />The truth appears to be that Israelis really want most of the West Bank but are afraid to admit it. Lebensraum?<br /><br />It's very sad to watch all of this happening . . . been watching for years and the dots do connect onward into the future.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-54233312752100346432011-01-17T17:12:04.325+02:002011-01-17T17:12:04.325+02:00Barry
don't underestimate how much fun it is ...Barry <br />don't underestimate how much fun it is to dig tunnels while being sheltered in Green Houses<br /><br />and also, once Jewish Israelis will be gone we will surely see a revival of the culture of translating Ancient texts into Arabic and thus preserving those for mankind whose Greek originals didn't survive.<br /><br />and mosaics and water fountains and graceful arches <br /><br />as the saying goes: man doesn't live by bread aloneSilkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16383345395827271854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-36809815704010566652011-01-17T16:49:52.842+02:002011-01-17T16:49:52.842+02:00if such a state is created, because many Israeli J...<i>if such a state is created, because many Israeli Jews will flee. So if it will be a good deal for Palestinians ....</i><br /><br />If those Israeli Jews flee what part of the deal will be left for Palestinians?<br />They certainly won't be left with the wealth because that will escape in the heads of those fleeing.<br />The Palestinians will find themselves with real estate and some gas but nothing to provide the vibrancy and standard of living that the current state enjoys.Barryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00918572885697445831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-81784784407796616922011-01-17T10:27:28.391+02:002011-01-17T10:27:28.391+02:00Just a Thought
thanks for pointing that one out -...Just a Thought<br /><br />thanks for pointing that one out - even if it is by me I must admit it is a good one and it has gone "viral" already:<br /><br /><i>In this day and age of assymetric threats, </i><br /><br />but seriously predictions being notoriously difficult especially if they concern the future Anon's scenario seems to be a good one except for the other one which I favour i.e. giving the high ground to neighbours who have proved their untrustworthyness for decades and decades is more than risky. <br /><br />It is a decision between Scylla and Charybdis which one should remember Odysseus avoided (and thus survived) because he clung to a rock ledge and waited until his boat was spewed out again. (at least in my version he does that)Silkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16383345395827271854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-86333520489745079672011-01-17T08:24:12.662+02:002011-01-17T08:24:12.662+02:00If there is no agreement acceptable to the Palesti...If there is no agreement acceptable to the Palestinians, their only final resort will be to disband the PA and to unilaterally end the occupation by submitting to Israeli sovereignty. Thus, will begin the long march for civil rights, something that will pull Israel completely down from the moral high ground.<br /><br />Israel needs to move quickly to end the occupation to avoid this future. In this day and age of assymetric threats, holding the Jordan Valley and settlements in the West Bank do not provide security. The huge "military zones" of the West Bank that exclude Palestinians threaten Israel instead of providing security (in Oslo Accord Area C).<br /><br />The current project to create a reservation system, complete with tribal police and government, will, in the long run, destroy Israel, as the "indians" will eventually seek their civil rights and Israel will destroy itself by denying those rights.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-23080784714087692772011-01-17T05:11:14.836+02:002011-01-17T05:11:14.836+02:00Be that as it may. Organic dissolution. That, as f...Be that as it may. Organic dissolution. That, as far I know, ever stopped an aggressor from demanding all. If there were zero Palestinians in Israel this would cause them to yell all the harder for all of Israel. And if there were 40 Jews left in all of Israel Palestinian demands would not abate either.Empress Trudyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06073538968722986065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-33278010712000248272011-01-17T04:46:04.127+02:002011-01-17T04:46:04.127+02:00"not to mention the other asses they had up t...<i>"not to mention the other asses they had up their sleeves"</i><br /><br />Silke, you are a treasure. Even your unintentional slips have meaning and humour!Just a Thoughtnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-14291684537827663162011-01-17T02:20:15.254+02:002011-01-17T02:20:15.254+02:00The Arabs and the Jews have always been separate c...The Arabs and the Jews have always been separate communities but the Palestinian Arabs as a minority have never been able to figure out a common direction. That has foundered all efforts to create a Palestinian state over the years and it won't be any different in the future. Israel on the other hand, will grow and flourish with or without Arab agreement.NormanFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03365459073293643108noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-9276161609695552322011-01-17T02:18:08.558+02:002011-01-17T02:18:08.558+02:00This comment has been removed by the author.NormanFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03365459073293643108noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-67136073572722301032011-01-16T22:34:40.434+02:002011-01-16T22:34:40.434+02:00What's stopping them right now?
payments of t...<i>What's stopping them right now?</i><br /><br />payments of tribute? <br /><br />that's how the Romans and the Byzantine stopped the irksome ones at their border, not to mention the other asses they had up their sleeves.<br /> <br />Is it in any way different because it is called aid these days?<br />if only it wouldn't incentivise population growth.Silkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16383345395827271854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-87394678883681485462011-01-16T22:26:10.135+02:002011-01-16T22:26:10.135+02:00...an unelected prime minister who seems to mean w...<i>...an unelected prime minister who seems to mean well.</i><br /><br />Um, so who exactly is the one "detached the reality..."?<br /><br />--------<br /><br /><i>So if it will be a good deal for Palestinians five or ten years from now, it's already a good deal today. What's stopping them right now?</i><br /><br />They don't want "a deal". <br /><br />(How many times must this---irksome litte?---fact be repeated until it's understood?)<br /><br />Ah, but what do they want?....Barry Meislinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04795125774426217113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-40721738991985537782011-01-16T22:13:37.102+02:002011-01-16T22:13:37.102+02:00First, the settlements aren't growing. They ta...First, the settlements aren't growing. They take up the same landmass they took five years ago. Second, this must be the window of opportunity that never closes, because nothing is stopping Israel from simply transferring political sovereignty over west bank lands, including settlements to Palestinian political authority, even without dismantling the settlements. The only conceivable way in which one can then read your remark is that Jews should not be allowed to live in a Palestinian state. Is this what you're suggesting?<br /><br />Finally, the demographics are not at all clear, and may not be favoring Palestinians in the short or long term. The permanent political division between WB and Gaza eliminates the demographic argument entirely.<br /><br />To answer your question, what's stopping them is reality. No one actually expects Israel to accept a one state solution against its will, and making that demand would nullify the basis of forty years of security council resolutions. Finally, the PA is a power structure with an interest in self-preservation.Avigdorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05008730229882004376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-13191151865348665182011-01-16T21:38:30.395+02:002011-01-16T21:38:30.395+02:00Interesting post. Still, I think most people who a...Interesting post. Still, I think most people who are worried about a Palestinian demand for a single state don't envision the peoples west of the Jordan organically integrating until some day they want to live together in a single state. The scenario, rather, is that a demand for a single state will be a self-conscious political maneuver designed to create an Arab-dominated state of Palestine, including what is now Israel. If Palestinians make that demand, it won't be because Gazans suddenly want to share a state with Jews. There will be no intention to coexist permanently in a binational state.<br /><br />I'm skeptical of predictions of a demand for a single state, too, but not for the reason described in this post. Here's one question people never ask, much less answer. If, as the growing settlements close the window of opportunity, such a demand is inevitable, then why haven't the Palestinians already made the demand? They're already close to 50% of the population west of the Jordan, and they'll certainly be more than 50% if such a state is created, because many Israeli Jews will flee. So if it will be a good deal for Palestinians five or ten years from now, it's already a good deal today. What's stopping them right now?Aaronnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-70147579472392637352011-01-16T21:35:22.805+02:002011-01-16T21:35:22.805+02:00You meant to say that you sabras still share somet...You meant to say that you sabras still share something with us, the Diaspora ;)Avigdorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05008730229882004376noreply@blogger.com