tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post6366425403858290087..comments2024-01-01T01:47:59.449+02:00Comments on Yaacov Lozowick's Ruminations: Israel at 63Yaacovhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12835192312242961481noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-22326566349673278312011-05-18T00:54:24.753+03:002011-05-18T00:54:24.753+03:00no hurry whatsoever, Sylvia
it isn't of the k...no hurry whatsoever, Sylvia<br /><br />it isn't of the kind that is old news after a week or two.Silkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16383345395827271854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-7551715877578236412011-05-18T00:28:35.353+03:002011-05-18T00:28:35.353+03:00I'll read it Silke but maybe not tonight.
than...I'll read it Silke but maybe not tonight.<br />thanks.Sylvianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-75056862055812977342011-05-17T23:58:44.094+03:002011-05-17T23:58:44.094+03:00Sylvia
if you could overcome your "lazyness&...Sylvia<br /><br />if you could overcome your "lazyness" for half an hour or more I'd love to read your take on this piece<br /><br />http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2011/may/17/egypt-why-are-churches-burning/<br /><br />especially with regard to<br /><br />- Mubarak did indeed keep the lid on<br />- the Muslim Brotherhood is by far not as bad as the Salafists and the thugs and several others.<br />- Israel isn't mentioned but Netanyahu's lack of enthusiasm more than vindicated by implication <br /><br />and some more. <br /><br />Since the venue NYBooks was Tony Judt's favourite hang-out I am especially baffled by the hat-tip to Mubarak which would justify the much maligned support of the US for him over all those years.Silkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16383345395827271854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-47738268527121390992011-05-17T19:28:37.371+03:002011-05-17T19:28:37.371+03:00thanks galore Sylvia
as best I remember you didn&...thanks galore Sylvia<br /><br />as best I remember you didn't quote the quote way back then (if you had I would have googled for it first) you just mentioned that Fanon made kind of the same point. <br /><br />I think it is a great quote and I hope it inspires my online-friend to come up with another one of his great argument.Silkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16383345395827271854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-39293280610212926892011-05-17T19:09:38.300+03:002011-05-17T19:09:38.300+03:00Indeed, they are liberated to torture one another....Indeed, they are liberated to torture one another. (As we have been seeing over the past several months---during this magnificent Arab Spring---and also during the past 40, 50, 60 years.)<br /><br />Which is what the Palestinians will do to one another (it's already happened)...<br /><br />...and what the Palestinians' brothers in neighboring countries will do to the Palestinians, as those neighbors---brothers---vie for dominance in the Land between the River and the Sea.<br /><br />And no one will care.... (Since they are "liberated"....)<br /><br />But at least, at the very least---Praised Be The LORD!!---the Zionist Project will have been obliterated. So all those deaths will---what is the expression that Abbas used recently (that great Abe Lincoln of the Palestinian masses)?---they will "not have died in vain""!!Barry Meislinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04795125774426217113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-31349866670979475102011-05-17T18:47:07.271+03:002011-05-17T18:47:07.271+03:00Silke
Correct me if I am wrong, but what I remembe...Silke<br />Correct me if I am wrong, but what I remember saying about Fanon concerned the Algerian revolution, not the Palestinians, and I am the one who used his quote to explain the double standards used when judging the palesttinian and Israel's actions. I recall that what I said more or less about the double standards in which europeans and their "others" are held (by western ;leftists in general)with regard to "barbarity". <br />I found the quote but not the reference to racism although it is clear that it is what it's about.<br /> <br />First, you should know that the context is important. Fanon was making an apology of the Algerian revolutionaries and in a way not accepting but not rejecting altogether their cruelty.<br /><br />Second - and that's very very important - Fanon is usually quoted by leftists- or plagiarized in the case of Mersheimer for exemple - to make their case against Israel, since the Algerian revolution has served as model for the Palestinians against Israel.<br /> For that reason it would seem odd that i would quote him or even read him. that is because to me - and to many like me - the creation of Israel was a liberation of the country from colonizers in the spirit of the independences in the Middle East and Africa of the mid-twentieth century. <br /><br />Now that you're through with my introduction, here is the quote:)<br /><br />"The European nation that practices torture is a blighted nation, unfaithful to its history. The underdeveloped nation that practices torture thereby confirms its nature, plays the role of an underdeveloped people."<br />Frantz Fanon, Preface to <i>A Dying Colonialism</i> Grove Press, p.24Sylvianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-28373722587451387012011-05-17T16:49:40.570+03:002011-05-17T16:49:40.570+03:00Sylvia
Question:
you once mentioned that Frantz ...Sylvia<br /><br />Question:<br /><br />you once mentioned that Frantz Fanon also made the argument that this infantilising Palestinians or rather others into the poor little ones who can't help themselves is actually racism. <br /><br />Can you find the source? Can you help with finding the source? preferably in quotable form.<br /><br /> It doesn't matter, if it is in French. An online "friend" who does lectures would be interested in maybe making good use of it, Fanon being such an ideal source for it.<br /><br />Thanks!Silkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16383345395827271854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-36071290044532627392011-05-17T13:03:37.373+03:002011-05-17T13:03:37.373+03:00Sylvia
I'm not so sure whether Anti-Palestini...Sylvia<br /><br />I'm not so sure whether Anti-Palestinism qualifies as hate-speech under all conditions. Whenever I "hurl" something at them, I try to keep in mind that I still want to feel comfortable should I meet again any of the Muslims I've come to like and respect over the decades.<br /><br />On the other hand I feel an overly PC-attitude isn't any help to those amongst them who want to be truly "moderate" because it implicitly conveys the message that we don't consider the evil ones to be as bad as they would like us to regard them i.e. they feel abandonned by "us".<br /><br />and whether the term existed or not, doesn't matter, it still is worth a try to promote it. Good language is needed, the more the better and one never knows before extensive experimentation what has the ability to hit the mark.<br /><br />When I was new to this business I thought that having said something once and gotten no reaction I shouldn't repeat myself - I was wrong, some things hit in another context, other thoughts don't have it. But one try is too little to decide.Silkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16383345395827271854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-86703753338390002722011-05-17T02:45:11.101+03:002011-05-17T02:45:11.101+03:00Hmm. I thought I invented something new but I just...Hmm. I thought I invented something new but I just thought of googling it and.... it exists!<br />in these contexts<br />-"Palestinism' the Real UN Disease"<br /><br />-"Anti-Palestinism is Hate Speech"<br />(seems you're right about that one)Sylvianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-66010087148008415602011-05-17T02:37:19.034+03:002011-05-17T02:37:19.034+03:00yes you're quite right about that point. And i...yes you're quite right about that point. And it is unnecessary.Sylvianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-68219651876721591342011-05-17T02:26:30.707+03:002011-05-17T02:26:30.707+03:00sorry
I should have thought first before typing ...sorry <br /><br />I should have thought first before typing - I am OK with all of your suggestions and look forward to trying them in live context. <br /><br />The only objection I have is to Anti-Palestinist and/or Anti-Palestinism<br /><br />Rule 101 I've learned over the decades, if you want to blast someone never help his name become more well-known - also I might qualify and I don't want to label myself with their name. If the Anti-Zionists are dumb enough to be called that, that is their problem.<br /><br />I have no idea for a zinger to replace it, if I should stumble on something I'll let you know ;-)<br /><br />Until then don't call me Anti-Palestinist - I mind that while I like it when they go after me accusing me of being a pro-Zionist or even better is getting accused of being under the thumb of a Zionist husband. <br />;-)Silkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16383345395827271854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-31793380427529172352011-05-17T01:36:22.646+03:002011-05-17T01:36:22.646+03:00More - i would call Blumenthal Mondoweiss and that...More - i would call Blumenthal Mondoweiss and that other character "The palestinist Blogosphere". 'Palestinist bloggers". here's context.Sylvianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-55858374115238478582011-05-17T01:31:24.384+03:002011-05-17T01:31:24.384+03:00Palestinian is an identity. Palestinism is an ideo...Palestinian is an identity. Palestinism is an ideology or a state of mind. Mahmoud Abbas is a Palestinian. Vittorio Origani was palestinist. A Palestinian can also be a palestinist if he believes in Palestinian exceptionalism (the only refugees entitled to UN support in perpetuity; their suffering is more worthy than say, that of the Darfur refugees, of the Copts in Egypt, etc;).<br />Palestinism is a state of mind that trumps rationality (look at the folks at Mondoweiss). palestinism has a terminology and symbols of its own.Sylvianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-28100802052128027172011-05-17T00:50:16.163+03:002011-05-17T00:50:16.163+03:00which might be best accomplished by trying it out ...which might be best accomplished by trying it out by using it - then one can check immediately in context whether it comes across in the sense it is meant to <br /><br />I am not quite sure though what anti-Palestinism stands for - if I should meet a Palestinian I wouldn't out of principle reject him. Given a chance I'd let him/her have his/her say first. (watching the eyes, listening closely)Silkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16383345395827271854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-73201690788750657872011-05-16T23:17:28.631+03:002011-05-16T23:17:28.631+03:00thinking about it, that would balance "Zionis...thinking about it, that would balance "Zionist and anti-Zionist". "Palestinism and anti-Palestinism". It needs to be defined further and that definition polished.Sylvianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-89778882323402347822011-05-16T23:13:32.057+03:002011-05-16T23:13:32.057+03:00Just an idea.
How would you feel about the terms ...Just an idea.<br /><br />How would you feel about the terms "Palestinist/Palestinism" to describe pro-Palestinians and the Palestinian exceptionalism preached by so-called "human rights" activists? <br />I think writing every time "Palestinians and pro-Palestinian jewish/leftist supporters" is too long (and I am rather lazy).Sylvianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-66508201375504230752011-05-16T22:18:16.890+03:002011-05-16T22:18:16.890+03:00Should be, "...in the Olmert administration,....Should be, "...in the Olmert administration,..."Barry Meislinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04795125774426217113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-3947070350005742392011-05-16T22:16:58.056+03:002011-05-16T22:16:58.056+03:00Dear Tzippi!!
Bravo!! You have successfully prove...Dear Tzippi!!<br /><br />Bravo!! You have successfully proven that women politicians can be as beneath contempt as the male variety.<br /><br />(And here, I had thought it was mostly a gender-based thing.)<br /><br />Anyway, thank you for setting me straight.<br /><br />You had your chance and you blew it in the Olmert, and boy did you blow it. (Not that I blame you. You see, every Israeli PM has "blown it" since the very beginning---chalk it up to Arafat's genius.) <br /><br />But back on subject, I expect that showing yourself as the consummate politician, at your country's expense, that you have sealed your political future.<br /><br />I certainly hope so....<br /><br />Sincerely, with utter, dripping, mucilaginous contempt,<br />Barry MeislinBarry Meislinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04795125774426217113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-75283700359326465222011-05-16T19:53:53.088+03:002011-05-16T19:53:53.088+03:00Thanks, Silke. No that's enough I just tested ...Thanks, Silke. No that's enough I just tested that it works.<br />Blogger is getting to be too much of a hastle - nothing to do with the fact they were down - maybe some settings that are not correct but I am not going to bother too much with it.Sylvianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-12714791615398308352011-05-16T19:20:34.668+03:002011-05-16T19:20:34.668+03:00Sylvia
I saw you at Richard Millett's ;-)
I a...Sylvia<br /><br />I saw you at Richard Millett's ;-)<br />I asked your question at the Elder who has some French commenters<br />http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2011/05/morning-links_16.html#comment-204538681<br /><br />Actually come to think of it they were active when the items for the Hasbara award were collected. Do you want me to look for their URLs. I think they had blogs.<br /><br />thanks for the report from the Knesset - today certainly is the day eminently appropriate to blame Netanyahu for Israel's image <br /><br />I am relying for news more and more on Israel's government sites - Netanyahu's speech sounds interesting and sensible. It should show up here shortly.<br /><br />http://www.pmo.gov.il/PMOEngSilkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16383345395827271854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-68542246284881672032011-05-16T19:00:42.499+03:002011-05-16T19:00:42.499+03:00Livni is speaking - She blames Netanyahu for Israe...Livni is speaking - She blames Netanyahu for Israel's image in the worldSylvianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-63272873253061367342011-05-16T18:54:27.694+03:002011-05-16T18:54:27.694+03:002.End of conflict and end of demands
4. Palestin...2.End of conflict and end of demands<br /><br /><br />4. Palestinian State only based to the conditions stated in a mutual peace agreement 9concerning military, etc)Sylvianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-72042495480424666652011-05-16T18:51:11.133+03:002011-05-16T18:51:11.133+03:00settlement blocssettlement blocsSylvianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-64250285114876812342011-05-16T18:50:04.474+03:002011-05-16T18:50:04.474+03:00Thanks Silke for the links.
Incidentally, Netanya...Thanks Silke for the links.<br /><br />Incidentally, Netanyahu is speaking to the Knesset as I write and he is saying what I said above: "it's not about the 1967 borders".<br /><br />He is also listing his conditions for a Palestinian state:<br />1. Recognition of Israel as a Jewish State<br /> <br />3. The refugees problem must be solved within the new Palestinian state<br /><br />5. We agree that the settlements bocs must stay in Israel<br /><br />6. Jerusalem must remain the sovereign capital of Israel<br /><br />I missed 2 and 4.Sylvianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-1934144481551600492011-05-16T17:44:08.209+03:002011-05-16T17:44:08.209+03:00but Sylvia I have noticed you with great delight a...but Sylvia I have noticed you with great delight at the Elder recently with no problem. And if something is wrong with the comment section there I guess it would be more due to problems you might have with Disqus than with Blogger. (Disqus works fine for me)<br /><br />Most of all I am sure, that if you ask for help the guys there will be glad to provide it.<br /><br />There is quite a number of delightfully outspoken Israeli commenters at Richard Millett<br />http://richardmillett.wordpress.com/<br /><br />I subscribe to every post - so if you want something passed on to the Elder just let me know - I'll be happy to. <br /><br />BTW Blogger was down last week from Wednesday to Friday but it is functioning now again.<br /><br />Of course there is also CiFWatch which is another Wordpress-blog - I still read it, but I haven't been in their comment section for a long time, the Elder being so lively and so full of good company.<br /><br />Other than that I by now try to apply my here and elsewhere acquired "skills" to German blogs which I find quite a task ;-) our language being somewhat clumsy by comparison.Silkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16383345395827271854noreply@blogger.com