tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post8003373396370153335..comments2024-01-01T01:47:59.449+02:00Comments on Yaacov Lozowick's Ruminations: VictimhoodYaacovhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12835192312242961481noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-82366954124281811252009-05-13T08:19:00.000+03:002009-05-13T08:19:00.000+03:00The whole issue of victimhood is a distraction. Gr...The whole issue of victimhood is a distraction. Greenwald seems to use victimhood as a cynical means of reducing sympathy for Israel. I can speak for many Israelis whose parents survived the Nazi camps when I say: "I could claim victimhood, but I don't ask for anything from anyone. I just want to be left alone." Is that too much to ask of Mr. Greenwald? Can't he just leave Israel alone?Roddy Frankelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-33932067548639421102009-05-09T07:10:00.000+03:002009-05-09T07:10:00.000+03:00This is an excellent post, Yaacov. You're absolute...This is an excellent post, Yaacov. You're absolutely right; being a victim is not an indication of morality. Morality is determined by our actions. <br /><br />Thank you. Well said!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-10938374949028262262009-05-07T08:16:00.000+03:002009-05-07T08:16:00.000+03:00Oh, sure, give me a suggestion for even more depre...Oh, sure, give me a suggestion for even more depressing posts...<br /><br />I'm too busy at the moment.Hulkettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14064204358201624137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-84535682603017724082009-05-06T20:08:00.000+03:002009-05-06T20:08:00.000+03:00I read the Greenwald piece and believe there is a ...I read the Greenwald piece and believe there is a more fundamental flaw. Greenwald's rant is directed at Goldberg's statement that Rosen and Weissman "worked for a demonized lobby." Obviously, Goldberg was not saying that AIPAC or more generally the "Israel Lobby" is demonized or persecuted by the US government. Given the historic success of pro-Israel lobbying groups, and particularly their enormous influence in the Bush administration, only a fool would make such a statement, and Goldberg is no fool. Goldberg was instead referring to the "demonization" of the so-called "Israel Lobby" among the anti-Israel left in the US - as evidenced by the opening sentence of the next graph that it is a sad day for the Walts and Mearsheimers of the world. <br /><br />Greenwald's entire argument is directed at a straw man of his own making. It would, of course, be absurd to claim that AIPAC is demonized by the federal government. Goldberg said no such thing, as any sensible reading of his post makes clear.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-46904954624689735892009-05-06T15:49:00.000+03:002009-05-06T15:49:00.000+03:00"It could be that AIPAC's successes come about, at...<I>"It could be that AIPAC's successes come about, at least in part, not because of its demonic power, but because - gasp! - people agree with them."</I>I agree. In fact, I argue that AIPAC's mythical "power" comes about not because of anything AIPAC does or does not do, but because a consistent 55% to 70% of the American electorate supports Israel.<br /><br />With respect to AIPAC and the "Israel lobby", two points are important:<br /><br />1. Technically, AIPAC is <B>not</B> a lobby. That is, it is not a Political Action Committee (PAC). Its name is "American Israel Public Affairs Committee". Political Action Committees (like J-Street) give monies directly to candidates and for that reason are heavily regulated. AIPAC doesn't give monies directly to candidates, is non-partisan, isn't a formally-regulated PAC, and so is more an interest group than a lobby.<br /><br />2. Total pro-Israeli monies per American election cycle are far down the list - from memory, I believe about number 20 - well below the oil industry and other pro-Arab interest groups.Philo-Semitenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-28759571873073982372009-05-05T14:50:00.000+03:002009-05-05T14:50:00.000+03:00It seems to be that Greenwald just spent several h...It seems to be that Greenwald just spent several hundred words proving Jeffrey Goldberg's point.Geoff Mnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-44505722090535102212009-05-05T07:25:00.000+03:002009-05-05T07:25:00.000+03:00Yaacov,
There's a third problem with Greenwald's ...Yaacov,<br /><br />There's a third problem with Greenwald's argumentation: <B>correlation does not equal causation</B>. It could be that AIPAC's successes come about, at least in part, not because of its demonic power, but because - gasp! - people agree with them.David Boxenhornhttp://www.rishon-rishon.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-79598628654906099622009-05-05T00:42:00.000+03:002009-05-05T00:42:00.000+03:00"Victimhood is not a moral category." Perfectly s..."Victimhood is not a moral category." Perfectly stated.<br /><br /><br />LisaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4008006782907969381.post-32781237277050899962009-05-05T00:21:00.000+03:002009-05-05T00:21:00.000+03:00Greenwald's excellent when he's in his comfort zon...Greenwald's excellent when he's in his comfort zone. I think his posts on the Constitution, rule of law and other legal issues are top-notch. His media criticism usually contains legitimate insight but shrouds them in so much repetitive hyperbole that it's hard to take. I don't like the Washington Press Corps either. And I don't know how many times you can refer to them as "court heralds" before it grows annoying. But I do know Greenwald's surpassed it.<br /><br />But when he writes about foreign policy, and especially when he writes about Israel, he's simultaneously superficial and convinced of the depth of his own insight. It's an unfortunate combination.Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16078029674517465221noreply@blogger.com