“Our critics don’t get it,” Oren said. “In Jenin, we went house-to-house and sent 23 soldiers to their death. But if we’re going to be called war criminals no matter what we do, then maybe that changes our thinking.”
but I bet that on top of it all Oren is a heartthrob not only for me but for a lot of other gals advanced in years and maybe younger ones with an eye for true substance also. The man's got it.
Lee Smith is the first one I read who says "Gaza flotilla story" and "Mavi Marmara incident" - finally a guy who seems to be able to write without showing that he knows the word debacle.
ain't Oren great: "the capricious dictates of the international community"
as to "“Hezbollah has hidden all of its medium- and long-range missiles under schools and hospitals. They internalized Goldstone.”
Ehud Barak said at the Washington Institute in February of this year that he would bomb anyway and nothing happened neither during the talk nor in Q&A - the only other name I remember is Martin Indyk. The audio-link is below.
Also I have good news finally Jack Shafer had a bit of a close look at Beinart's "essay". Result it is shoddy - why oh why does the world take so long to trust me and my gut ;))) http://www.slate.com/id/2256342/
I've met Oren a few times—a friend is a childhood pal of his wife—and he's... very confident. That's usually a valuable trait when talking to the media, but sometimes it can come off as abrasive, as with his comments on J Street, which he later had to walk back.
Yaacov, are there any general trends of thought among Israelis about Michael Oren? Because quite a few Jews on this side of the pond put great stock in his future and think that he'd be foolish not to go into politics and be a 21st century Abba Eban.
And Silke, I've heard people call him a "fox," so I don't think you're alone. (Of course, I've also heard people say he looks like Grand Moff Tarkin from Star Wars, but such is life.)
thanks RK abrasive mmmh - that might explain his appeal as a man which is unusual in somebody who sounds so credible as a scholar - Shimon Stein had "it" also but without coming across as a scholar
- I have probably listened by now to almost a dozen of Oren's talks (aren't podcasts a great invention). The man is simply very very good at his job and if he sometimes doesn't suffer fools gladly - so be it. Whether his private person synchs with his public persona interests me not in the least. I don't dream about getting close to him not even while unconscious at night, I enjoy what he has to give and that's it.
Bryan I take to people mostly through their voices and what they say and a certain kind of quickness of mind and humour of course
- I fell for Oren long before I had seen a picture of him - after that voice and that way of talking and structuring a talk there isn't much that could have put me off - maybe if he had looked like he didn't like to take care of himself, i.e. didn't like his own body but other than that no way. I don't know star wars but even if he had turned out to be an ugly robot look alike, so what? (I googled, it says Grand Moff Tarkin is a villain - where are those people? let me go after them;-)
- judging from what I've learned since I spend time around here I'd bet that they'll find fault because he is a bit weak on performing miracles.
The way Yaacov describes it I think it may be something Israelis have in common with Germans. Yaacov calls it kvetching we call it meckern which is also the word for the sound that goats make and it is our favourite pastime. I learned to control that knee-jerk reaction somewhat while I worked for US-bosses. But in a German context a person who doesn't find something zu meckern even about the best possible something can't be a serious person.
When I worked in Paris ages ago I was struck how my colleagues had constantly something that made them suffer. Qu'est-ce que je souffre!!! could be heard all over the office all day long. Compared to that meckern seems tolerable.
I don't think Israel is about to start indiscriminately bombing schools and hospitals either, but I think that it will refrain from "commando action" that has proven to be costly in Israeli blood and not worth the total lack of international recognition of that extra effort.
Hezbollah has hidden all of its medium- and long-range missiles under schools and hospitals.
And has more than likely established their military command posts in, under and around such structures as well.
And this was and will be true of Hamas as well, since their efforts to use mosques as storage dumps didn't quite work out as well as they would have liked.
but I bet that on top of it all Oren is a heartthrob not only for me but for a lot of other gals advanced in years and maybe younger ones with an eye for true substance also. The man's got it.
ReplyDeleteSilke
Lee Smith is the first one I read who says "Gaza flotilla story" and "Mavi Marmara incident" - finally a guy who seems to be able to write without showing that he knows the word debacle.
ReplyDeleteain't Oren great:
"the capricious dictates of the international community"
as to
"“Hezbollah has hidden all of its medium- and long-range missiles under schools and hospitals. They internalized Goldstone.”
Ehud Barak said at the Washington Institute in February of this year that he would bomb anyway and nothing happened neither during the talk nor in Q&A - the only other name I remember is Martin Indyk. The audio-link is below.
Also I have good news finally Jack Shafer had a bit of a close look at Beinart's "essay". Result it is shoddy - why oh why does the world take so long to trust me and my gut ;))) http://www.slate.com/id/2256342/
Silke
http://itunes.apple.com/de/podcast/israel-2010-strategic-threats/id254026678?i=81167348
I've met Oren a few times—a friend is a childhood pal of his wife—and he's... very confident. That's usually a valuable trait when talking to the media, but sometimes it can come off as abrasive, as with his comments on J Street, which he later had to walk back.
ReplyDeleteYaacov, are there any general trends of thought among Israelis about Michael Oren? Because quite a few Jews on this side of the pond put great stock in his future and think that he'd be foolish not to go into politics and be a 21st century Abba Eban.
ReplyDeleteAnd Silke, I've heard people call him a "fox," so I don't think you're alone. (Of course, I've also heard people say he looks like Grand Moff Tarkin from Star Wars, but such is life.)
thanks RK
ReplyDeleteabrasive mmmh - that might explain his appeal as a man which is unusual in somebody who sounds so credible as a scholar - Shimon Stein had "it" also but without coming across as a scholar
- I have probably listened by now to almost
a dozen of Oren's talks (aren't podcasts a great invention). The man is simply very very good at his job and if he sometimes doesn't suffer fools gladly - so be it. Whether his private person synchs with his public persona interests me not in the least. I don't dream about getting close to him not even while unconscious at night, I enjoy what he has to give and that's it.
Silke
Bryan
ReplyDeleteI take to people mostly through their voices and what they say and a certain kind of quickness of mind and humour of course
- I fell for Oren long before I had seen a picture of him - after that voice and that way of talking and structuring a talk there isn't much that could have put me off - maybe if he had looked like he didn't like to take care of himself, i.e. didn't like his own body but other than that no way. I don't know star wars but even if he had turned out to be an ugly robot look alike, so what? (I googled, it says Grand Moff Tarkin is a villain - where are those people? let me go after them;-)
Silke
Oh and Bryan
ReplyDeleteas to Israelis' opinion of Oren
- judging from what I've learned since I spend time around here I'd bet that they'll find fault because he is a bit weak on performing miracles.
The way Yaacov describes it I think it may be something Israelis have in common with Germans. Yaacov calls it kvetching we call it meckern which is also the word for the sound that goats make and it is our favourite pastime.
I learned to control that knee-jerk reaction somewhat while I worked for US-bosses. But in a German context a person who doesn't find something zu meckern even about the best possible something can't be a serious person.
When I worked in Paris ages ago I was struck how my colleagues had constantly something that made them suffer. Qu'est-ce que je souffre!!! could be heard all over the office all day long. Compared to that meckern seems tolerable.
Silke
This sounds like an empty threat. Israel is simply not going to start bombing schools, at least not without massive precautions and deliberations.
ReplyDeleteI don't think Israel is about to start indiscriminately bombing schools and hospitals either, but I think that it will refrain from "commando action" that has proven to be costly in Israeli blood and not worth the total lack of international recognition of that extra effort.
ReplyDeleteHezbollah has hidden all of its medium- and long-range missiles under schools and hospitals.
ReplyDeleteAnd has more than likely established their military command posts in, under and around such structures as well.
And this was and will be true of Hamas as well, since their efforts to use mosques as storage dumps didn't quite work out as well as they would have liked.
Meanwhile, another and another (continuing) challenge creeps inexorably. Not that this was unexpected....
(Keeping in mind, of course, that delegitimizing Israel is a "complex" issue....)