Monday, July 21, 2008

IDF Excessive Violence

I'm on the record, most famously in Right to Exist, as stating that the IDF is the most moral army anywhere. I stand by this statement. Indeed, at the moment there are only two other candidates for the title, and stories like this, about multiple accidental deaths at the hands of NATO forces, indicate that the Americans and the British aren't up to Israel's results, though all of them share the same standards. Having said that, however, Israel doesn't always reach its own standards, either. In the 2nd Lebanon war, in 2006, there was a lowering of standards, as I talked about at the time, and this story about an incident a few days ago is an indication that some troops aren't adhering to the standards. Indeed, the claims in the article that such cases are not so unusual, and this one merely happened to be caught on tape, is unfortunately probably true. Not that such incidents happen all the time and everywhere, but that this isn't an isolated incident.

The morality of a fighting army needs to be evaluated on various levels. The single most important, obviously, are the results. However, given the complexity of warfare and its extreme nature on the scale of human behavior, other things need also to be evaluated, such as the training given to troops and the extent of inculcation of moral standards, the alternatives weighed on the field, how widespread infractions are in comparison to the extent of operations, what efforts are made to limit damage to bystanders, what dangers are accepted to one's own forces in order to limit danger to bystanders, how does the society treat culprits, and so on.


Anonymous said...


Never, in all the history of time, as an armchair general ever perfected war mongering.

And, leave no doubt. The arabs raise their young to kill Jews. And, to be as obnoxious as possible.

The story I saw, showed a creepy 14-year-old being arrested by the IDF. The method of the operation? Was to scare the shit out of him.

He was blind folded. AND, his hands were snapped behind his back with plastic cuffs.

An IDF soldier (of lower rank than the arresting officer), took his gun, WHICH ONLY HAD RUBBER BULLETS, and he fired a shot. The 14-year old said "his leg came off."

NOT EVEN CLOSE! Not even a toe!

Heck, when America had to bring law and order out West, shooting at the feet of criminals was one way to get the cretins to leave town. And, to never, ever come back. (Sure. Alive they'd venture on to another town. But in time with the Army adding reinforcements; and each state adding judges. Sheriffs. And, jails. American became habitable from coast to coast.

Anyway, since I saw the picture, I thought that what the soldier was instructed to do made sense. Sometimes, you have to scare these savages where they think twice before they involve themselves in fighting the IDF.

Here, I have some good news.

As you know, hollywood hasn't produced a single movie about Irak that's made any money at the box office. (Need I remind you that hollywood makes movies in order to make money? And, they seemed to have killed their own golden goose. Not that I care.) I'm just pointing this out!

Well, in journalism, just like on TV, those who get to ask the questions belong to a certain ilk. They're not mainstream. And, where they work there's more need for red ink. Not less.

The other good thing is that these stories come and go very quickly. No longer can the idiots call together "street scenes" ... where the hippies, unbathed, come out. There's no longer any "there" there.

Anyway, I know I'm not in charge.

And, I have no use for armchair generals. Since real generals make the strategies that work. And, stuff that passes for journalism? Good enough to place under your puppy, when you're not fast enough to grab a leash. And, your puppy shits in your house. Good for puppies.

And, good at training monsters at 14 that the road they are on can become dangerous.

Now, as far as Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Eygpt go, Jews have no friends there. Not even worth spending a sheckel to visit.

People visit anyway, but what do I care? I'm not in charge of what other people thing.

But I know what I know! And, Obama, from the looks of things so far, will come up a loser. Even if the world is filled with his "type." Won't register in America.

Doesn't register in Israel.

Lydia McGrew said...

I think if the soldier had really wanted to hurt him, he could have done so, even with rubber bullets. I don't think he missed everything but a big toe (for crying out loud) because he's such a rotten shot.

Moshe Plesser was far more seriously injured--beaten unconscious--just for photographing a protest by Israeli Jews against the expulsion for Gaza. I understand that was by the police.

Sounds to me like the right-wingers may get hurt worse by representatives of the Israeli government of one sort or another than do the "Palestinians". These days, anyway.

Anonymous said...


There was "no toe involved!"

Dirt moved. And, the reason was to scare this kid so that he gave up on being a terrorist. NO DOWN SIDE.

Moshe Plesser did not look "beaten up" when he appeared on the scene, in Jerusalem, and stopped the front loader, by shooting the terrorist four times in the head.

As to "right wingers" how do you define the Likud, now? They've got 12 seats in the knesset. And, only 6 of them belong to Bibi. While 6 of them belong to Silvan Shalom; a guy without English speaking skills.

You can't fool me.

There's been an "insider's attempt" to take down Olmert.

Today, he took a swing at Livni. Said she's the worst of 4 candidates vying for his job. That she LIED to the Winograd Commission; and if she's trying to sell "honesty," it's an odd label to put on a whore. A political whore.

Other than that? Business as usual. Every day that passes it appears that Olmert is more and more COMPETENT. And, a mensh.

Here, I'll even gamble. That "trick" while Olmert was in Paris, where there's now a "vote" to change the Kadima constitution ... But, if you don't know this. The vote is SHORT for passage. And, Hanegbi, another incompetent, got an "extension" to see if he could drum up 8 more votes.

Betcha finding those 8 votes is even harder than finding a Kosher pig.

Oh, by the way, in America those old cowboy movies remain popular. And, in them you'd see the "dancing feet" ... when a cowboy took out his six-shooter.

Then, to make this funnier, go see Mel Brooks' BLAZING SADDLES.

HA! If you think the arabs have sold wahhabism anywhere where people prefer Western habits. I am definitely not impressed with America's media.

And, America's media are now "off" with Obama; trying to make the Kosher pig into an elected president. Won't happen. There's just too much common sense to go around. That's what elections smooth out. And, in AMerica, where the Founding Fathers discussed "size" ... And, where the ancient Greek city/states were all small ... Our Founding Fathers said "BIGGER IS BETTER." And, they were right.

Anonymous said...


I was wrong. I no sooner hit the "send" button on the above, and I went to the Jerusalem Post to find out that the "primary measure" did pass.

Doesn't mean Livni won.

If anything, Olmert is in a position to knock her block off.

And, a lot can happen. Since one of the failures of Likud was to have a Central Committee; which they tried to use to make Arik Sharon a mere puppet. (Not a man in a coma who was a fool to listen to his doctors.)

What can happen, ahead? I think interesting things. Or as Olmert says "tasty fishes."

And, while this mishigas plays out? At least the clock runs out on Bush and Condi Rice!

Always look for the silver lining, I say.

Ibrahim Ibn Yusuf said...

In the first place "Right to exist" proves that we Israel bashers are right in bashing Israel. If someone says that Israel is more moral than other countries, people immediately acquire the right to look into Israel's human rights violations more closely than into those of other offenders. Otherwise we would be deprived of the right to see if the "most moral" claim is true.

That said, I would add another level of morality. Human-rights violations that can't be ascribed to self-defense or national security concerns are more immoral than those that can somehow be thought of as necessitated by the circumstances.

The soldier had no need to shoot the minor in the foot. Israel had no need to shatter Lebanon's factories, dairies and other productive infrastructure. The settlers have no need to go and occupy privately-owned Palestinian property. Israel is immoral.