It is an unfashionable thing to say, but I have a considerable admiration for the Israeli way of doing things. They want something, they get it. They perceive someone as their deadly enemy, they kill them. They get hit, they hit back. They don’t waste time explaining or justifying or agonising; nor do they allow their detractors to enter their country and then afford them generous welfare payments. They just act. No messing. No scruples. Not even a shrug and a denial, just a rather magnificent refusal to debate anything.This absolutism, based on their history, carries its own moral weight; one that is rather electrifying in a Western world grown flabby with niceties. Clearly, the Israelis could defend their policies if they wanted to, but they quite simply can’t be bothered. It’s a waste of breath. One admires them for that, too.
She goes a bit overboard, alas, but it's nice when a Scottish lady from another world gushes about us: unusual, too. Equally interesting are the comments. Quite a number of them are by the kind of reasonable folks who recognize that war is an unsavory phenomenon that calls for actions you otherwise wouldn't do, but if you're forced to be at war, there's no choice. From my perch here in Jerusalem it's hard to know how common such sentiments are or aren't.
Then there's this description (from the Guardian!), about the enemies of the West in Afghanistan, and how they're not nice and don't play fair. As I've said, the more such descriptions become common in Western media, the more reasonable people will begin to make the connection to Israel's enemies and challenges. Good.
32 comments:
She's wrong, of course, about "no scruples". And about a lot of the other stuff besides.
How long, for example, did Israel wait before responding to Hamas's declaration to end the cease-fire in the fall of 2009? (Not that anyone remembers that....or the shipments of food and medicine, or the provisions of medical care, all this while Hamas was shooting missiles into Israel and declaring it would destroy the Zionist entity, etc.)
Sigh.
The problem that Ms. Reid doesn't seem to comprehend is the existential threat that Israel faces, and how one deals with it. (Ask Britain and the US in WWII, maybe?---Or maybe the Soviet Union; by the way, if you really feel like you have any desire to feel any kind of compassion for Nazi Germany, read Anthony Beevor's Berlin: The Downfall 1945 (or The Fall of Berlin 1945)...i.e., if you have any desire....).
The question is (and always has been): how do you treat people who want to destroy you?...and would do so without the blink of an eye if the positions were reversed.
And this is what makes Israel, with all of its problems, shenanigans, idiocies, chaos, and exasperating reality (not to mention its impressive achievements....) THE MOST MORAL NATION ON THE PLANET (not that many would wish to agree with that, mind you).
And so, Ms. Reid might admire us, but she really hasn't a clue.
But thanks anyway (I guess....)
I clicked "most recommended" on the comment section and nice surprise: all the winning comments are the positive supporting admiring ones which I take that the number of Brits who had enough of their super-PC and their constant mea culpas is increasing.
If Israel becomes the poster-child for those it may even help a bit to keep the next uni from boycotting Israel
and @ Barry
I won't read Beevor, I've heard his interviews on the book - right now the Brits have a new try at finally getting a in my mind long overdue monument for Bomber Command - I hope I can donate for it somewhere - did you know that they donated money for the rebuilding of Dresden's Frauenkirche - they are nuts these islanders ...
Silke
As Benny Morris said in an interview: "when the choice is between destroying or being destroyed, it's better to destroy."
Regards,
Sergio
as to unusual things happening
Victor has found a real something
a French TV piece on Hamas' use of human shields
the piece about the Afghan military complaining that the Taleban do it came also first from AFP
Despite Victor claiming he doesn't know French he delivers a very good short summary - scroll down and rub you eyes
Silke
http://victorshikhman.blogspot.com/2010/02/french-channel-2-strategie-des.html
Melanie Reid's assertion that there is no agonising in Israel is wrong. There is clearly, but that is a good thing.
Living in UK, I think her views are unusual. I have heard all sorts of (media-led) drivel about Israel here, you wouldn't believe it, particularly during Cast Lead.
You have to be very careful about what you say and to whom, I can assure you or the howls of rage will come down on you. It is fun to wind up the Guardianistas though ! However, it is nice to be in an informed position to rebut their nonsense.
another Brit writing some sense:
"Mossad ties are vital for the security of Britain"
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article7032839.ece
Silke
Barry, I've made the odd comment here over time that I think Israels PR is terrible & needs a rethink. It might interest you to know that one of Israels biggest PR disasters in recent years is the oft-stated claim of having the most moral army in the world. Whether true or not, it's just not something you lay claim to.
Cheers, Gavin
Gavin,
I never said that the Israeli army is the most moral in the world.
(You might want to read more carefully.)
I know that Barry. I was making the observation that neither army nor nation is moral. People are moral, and statements like "we're the most moral...x.. in the world" get received by others as "We've got better morals than you have" which isn't in any chapter of Dale Carnegies book. It goes down like a lead ballon.
Gavin
Gavin
everything Israelis say about themselves goes down like a lead balloon sooner or later but I would second your point on that obliging themselves to achieve an impossibly high standard is like they are hand-cuffing themselves.
These last days I have stumbled on two pieces (one by Tony Judt) claiming that the Kibbutzes of the 60s were and/or were perceived as back to the land old fashioned peasants. The movies I saw in our AKIs (Aktualitätenkinos) in the 50s told us that they made the desert bloom, i.e. achieved the impossible thus wowing our young minds. It must have been at the time that "the living desert" hit our cinemas which would be the same time we got acquainted with the destiny of Anne Frank and today's historians harp only on the negative that movement may have generated over the years.
Silke
Couple of thoughts.
1) Ms. Ried is wrong that Israelis "simply can’t be bothered" to defend their policies. What's this blog about, then? Isn't she aware of the word "Hasbara"? One gets tired of uninformed journos turning out stuff like this, completely unrelated to reality.
2) Ms. Ried declares herself an admirer of the Israeli operation after the massacre at the Munich Olympics in 1972, "when they hunted down 11 Palestinians who were responsible and eliminated them wherever they were in the world." It is very well known (but again, not to uninformed journos) that in that operation Israel killed innocent waiter Ahmed Bouchiki, whom they mistook for a terrorist. That mistake alone invalidates the whole operation and is perennial proof that extrajudicial killings are wrong.
Mr. Fake
how about highly elaborate judicial killings only finding out after the execution that the honourable judges and everybody involved got it all wrong
- I remember Scott Turow writing about it who is in principle for judicial killing but now advocates against it on the sole argument that too many errors happen - you really got to start striving to come up with some better thought through arguments - otherwise you might get boring and that would be terrible wouldn't it?
BTW do you do judicial killings in Argentina?
and something else I've wanted to ask you about for a long time: was there an indigenous population in Argentina? and if yes what is their history since they were discovered?
Silke
This Pseudo-Ibrahim-al-Whatever is really funny. According to his golden standard of perfection, any mistake the allies made in WWII is perennial proof that the war against the nazis was wrong. Lucky are those mass-murderers and terrorists that don't give a damn about killing innocent people at all: they don't need to worry about perennial proof they are wrong.
Regards.
Silke,
They did a lot of extra-judicial "disappearing" in Argentina during the military dictatorship: estimated 30.000 people dead.
Regards,
Sergio
thanks for the reminder - but how indelicate of you to say that? - they certainly must have had secret courts who decided on whom to "disappear" and come to think of it Mr. Fake will probably explain to us that it is all a big hoax and all the "disappeared" have voluntarily moved to happy and fulfilled lives in Switzerland or Shangri-La.
But lets be charitable and not hold the past against them, let "Ibrahim" tell us about the without doubt glorious and failure proof judicial system they have today.
Silke
Yep agree there Silke. The best position for Israel to take is that of the fallible human doing their best under trying circumstances. Admit fault at times, defend when necessary, but create and maintain an image that the average person can relate to. I think people lose sight of what Yaacov pointed out... that the anti-Israel mob are still the minority throughout the western world. It's a higher percentage than within Israel proper and varies from country to country, but the silent majority still support Israels right to exist. Israel needs to keep that support.
There is so much that Israel could do to greatly enhance their image, and it would cost very little. Improve the image & the pressure comes off incrementally.
Gavin
Gavin
but not in the style of one of these ubiquitous image enhancing campaigns
- what is needed is a good strong irresistible old fashioned narrative -
The ones who wrote the Bible should be able to come up with something that makes at least the women swoon or get biased - though swooning is usually more effective
Silke
So if a 15-yr-old boy steals my pocketbook in the street and a cop comes from behind and shoots the teenager without warning, that's OK. No one should criticize the cop: the Americans did far worse things during WWII.
That's where silly analogies can lead us. WWII was an extraordinary event in which many countries faced existential threats. When Israel murdered Ahmed Bouchiki, its existence was not at stake.
I believe I've already made clear that I'm against death penalty? And no, there's no capital punishment in Argentina.
As for Argentina's crimes against the desaparecidos, the native peoples or other groups, I'm not an apologist for Argentina. If you want to start a blog criticizing the country on those grounds, be my guest. I might even contribute a couple of ideas.
Not at all Silke. Much of the anti-Israel rehtoric is borne of numerous small fires combining to create a blaze. All that's required is to put out those many small fires; starve the blaze of fuel.
Oh, I'm so sorry to reply to silly arguments with my silly comparisons.
And, contrary to Al-Fake's hobby, which is Israel-bashing, I have no obssession with Argentine (though I love to watch when their team looses against Brazil).
Gavin,
I think that if one is open to learn about the facts and history and has a modicum of impartiallity, it is quite clear that Israel has been doing exactly what you say. However, this will *never* be recognize by those Al-Fakes types: it's useless to argue with them.
Silke,
Yes, the argentinian was the worse dictatorship in latin america (worse than the one under Pinochet!). Even our own 25 years of dictatorship here in Brazil was "mild", in comparison.
Regards,
Sergio
Gavin
just heard something and checked and surprise! it looks like Israel is doing in the field of PR-campaigns already everything that is humanly possible albeit without much success
- people don't want to learn about facts and given a choice they prefer to hyperventilate about fires - other peoples's fires of course
- look at this http://nation-branding.info/2009/10/17/about-israel-nation-brand/
so what I pin my (last) hope on is the emergence of an Israeli Rodolfo Valentino or a truly enticing rom-com or love novel or any such thing but not on the level of high literature, more an Israeli Alexander McCall-Smith or Israeli heroes and/or heroines in Mills&Boon bodice rippers - anything that gets people and especially women dreaming - and dreaming women tell men what's great
I may sound facetious here but I am quite serious - first there is my personal memory of watching films of those high-tech farming miracles performing scantily clad Kibbuzniks and what lasting effect that had on me i.e. forever doubting all news that spoke ill of these people and second there is the fact that Uncle Tom's Cabin wasn't a literature critic's dream
For example there was a guy named Moshe Feldenkrais in Tel Aviv? who gave a Swiss woman back a life after she had suffered brain damage - she travelled to get lessons from him every now and then - the book about her recovery is a riveting story - mix some kind of romance into it and hopefully voilà!!! - and there should be scores and scores of such stories out there
Silke
Thanks for the link Silke. Interesting. It's an example of what not to do, no point in running expensive PR campaigns when the news portion of the media keep churning out bad news. My thinking was that Israel would achieve more by addressing the sources of the negative stories that are coming out of Israel.
I've been in the people business most of my life & the lesson I learnt was that everyone is different but we're all the same. We all have our price. Many of those groups such as B'Tselem who appear to be working against Israel can be won over or at least neutered. The weakness of all self-righteous people is their ego. You beat them by playing to it.
The article by Craig Smith is informative. It reveals him as just a bigot who abrogates professionalism to vent his personal bias. No advertising person thinks the way he's written.
Cheers, Gavin
We all have our price.
Pay mine!
Now why would I do that Ibraham, you have nothing that I want. You're certainly selling aren't you, but no-one here is buying. Maybe you should try changing your product.
Gavin
as to Ibrahim
do you know if, when he rides into battle he does it on a black or a white horse? I for one by now picture him to be looking as dream-inducing as this guy http://www.timesonline.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00684/tuareg_585x350_684126a.jpg
but earnestly - may be you have an idea about this:
- our radio interviewers seem to prefer vastly the head waggers about Israel especially if they happen to be Jews. The more furrowed brow and heavy thinking they can exude the more air-time they seem to be getting. Would it be possible to equip the interviewing radio people with material for asking pithy questions, making their life easy for them, make them seem interesting and knowledgeable? But on the other hand the interviewees come across so pompous and so untouchable because of what we inflicted on them and/or their families in the 3rd Reich that tough questions will inevitably backfire because they'll seem so grossly impolite.
and then there are the revered experts: I read Tony Judt's three pieces of memoir at the NYbooks this week - what a snob the man is and how ignorant about the necessity of group action if you want things done. He seems to have totally forgotten that there are things he doesn't know about and/or where his judgement is grounded in class (and/or national)-prejudice. For example the serial orgasm fixation of our 68ers was firmly grounded in reading Wilhelm Reich who had been "ill-treated" by the CIA and thus must have been a saint and somehow Marcuse said it also - I am too dumb to understand their stuff but I read a bit of the nutty Reich who after having stipulated that the character armour (CharakterPanzer) had to be cracked seemed to bring it all together. The serial orgasm fixation generates a good laugh but how much more interesting that those trying to erase nazism once and for all fixated on another one topic mantra of which the cry for "let it all out" is still alive and well.
And in the context of office intrigue these people who don't know what they don't know win most of the time because they can pontificate endlessly totally vacuous but impressive sounding stuff and the ability to make within 5 minutes so many wrong or inaccurate claims that it takes hours to put them into perspective. They have their price but that price to me seems to be to be allowed to proclaim/pontificate/posture, being thick with the alpha-one around etc. If the groups you want to get are the same, what kind of smiling down alpha could you offer them?
Silke
Depends on what it is they have that you want to buy Silke, plus what your own price is. They're all different so their prices are all different too. An easy example is the universities, which I understand have become a bit of a cesspit of anti-Zionist activity. Somehow over time the rules have relaxed to the stage where lecturers & other staff are actively involved in politics while on the job. Students should be free to express themselves in any reasonable manner, employees of universities should not. In no business are the staff permitted to indulge in extra-curriculum activities that have a negative impact on their employer. Teachers are just employees, all the agitation by university staff whether left, right or centre, should be stopped. Their price is their job. It would need to be handled with tact, diplomacy & guile, but it needs doing.
As for some of the others like the NGOs. Well take B'Tselem as an example. Their website has more issues than just Gaza & the West Bank, there's some legitimate complaints there. They won't all be rabid zealots at B'Tselem so quietly find the moderates & start working with them. Give them a few victories, fix the problems that are the easiest, and slowly the inflexible zealots will be pushed out by the moderates who are getting results.
Lots & lots of different things can be done Silke, comes down to using a bit of psychology & being prepared to make deals.
Gavin
Gavin
I fully agree on all kinds of employees being unequivocally reminded of their obligations of loyalty. Getting an angle on NGOs seems tougher to me because they need the yelling and creating of hysterics for getting the attention that enhances their chances on a bigger piece of the donation cake - that is what may restrain their moderates most effectively - nobody wants to endanger the sources of funding.
as to my harping on the romantic angle you may want to have a look at this photo - http://nla.gov.au/nla.pic-an23566054 (yes I found it in Australia - the internet is full of marvels).
this series of pictures was subjected to a lot of doctoring and colouring and then published as a German National Geographic centerfold at the end of 2007 accompanied by a translated years' older simpleton style text of the American NG on the Arab Legion (where I finally finally found the name of the photographer leading me to the originals)
The whole piece suggested/implied that those were the "still close to nature" "firmly rooted in tradition" todesmutige=death courageous Lawrence-of-Arabia-Peter O'Toole/OmarSharif like natives who fought the Israelis in 1948. You had to read very carefully to notice that at that time they were already almost exclusively kept up as a parade show piece if it was in there at all. Taking the inconsistencies of the workings of my own mind as a testing ground, stuff like that in the country still enamoured of Karl May and his Winnetou i.e. the noble savage scares me more than a bit and suggests to me that the Israel-opponents have managed to usurp all Western dreams of that never having been true BS.
Silke
Gavin
and nobody has any purchase in accusing these German NG people of being anti-semites or even against Israel - they may claim (perfidious) innocence on all levels
Silke
Positive is always good Silke, but it never counterbalances the bad. It's human nature for people to pay more attention to bad news than good. My father worked for a national newspaper, he once told me about an attempt by the 'paper to run a good news section. They ended up cannning it because few people read it. There's an old advertising mantra that sums up PR; "Accentuate the positive, eliminate the negative" Israel can't stop all the bad media coming out of the country, but it can do a lot to reduce it significantly and carefully manage what does get through. Not easy in an open society but if the will is there then ways can be found.
Reid's article was the most sensible and reflective of the real public mood about the Dubai affair.
The Dubai affair has totally blown over in the US – not even a mention any more – and I imagine in the UK in most of the press – but the Guardian is scratching away at it like a 5 year old picking at a mosquito bite – unable to leave it alone since they hope, like their crusade about Gaza, to constantly keep it bleeding to maintain their ant-Israel readership’s interest. I count at least 32 (THIRTY TWO) articles on CiF and in the non-CiF sections. In addition, the letters section is weighed down with letters.
Yakov - good catch about the Taliban human shields.
Gaza redux.
I wonder if Goldstone will be called in to determine how many Taliban were actually "civilians" ...
Not likely, I suppose.
Gavin
I was talking neither about good nor about bad - I was talking about ROMANCE - good shameless dream-inducing romance makes people biased, prejudiced and influences their stances just as the positioning of cereal on the supermarket shelve influences our buying decisions.
Of course for newspapers bad news is good news but look at any tabloid and notice the high percentage of romance mixed in i.e. dreams of the wild and care-free life. Our one relevant German one supplies such dreams mostly for men ...
Don't forget the high-tech farming miracle performing kibbuzniks of my teenage-years were scantily clad and the sun was shining on their well-muscled bodies and most likely the prictures more potently than the words provided a lifelong efficient stop-gap against slander - such wonderful people just couldn't be as bad as they said.
There is a shady Israeli, enrapturing anti-Israel crowds - he is said to be? a desert guide and plays a mouth organ - he is called a doctor with a not findable theses and for some time they even called him a professor - he even got one of those peace prizes who get all the media in a tizzy
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reuven_Moskovitz
Now I do not propose to resort to shadiness but if that little is needed to enrapture people the good side should be able to come up with something.
Silke
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