Thursday, July 1, 2010

Simple, but Fundamental, Morality

The discussion of Didi Remez' allegations about Silwan and Israel's media rumbles on, over at his blog. Along the way one Michael LeFavour penned a fine comment on morality, focusing on the pervasive idea that Israel, or America, or the rich West, somehow make folks so mad they've got no alternative but to commit murder. You'd think arguments such as Michael's would be unnecessary - had you been on Mars the past 30-40 years.
[T]here is nothing that an enemy of mine could ever do to me that would cause me to shoot a 70 year old cripple to death, roll his wheel chair to the edge of a ship, and dump his lifeless body into the ocean. There is nothing that an enemy of mine could ever do to me that could allow me to take his child from him, execute him in front of her, then crush her skull with my rifle and saunter past her mangled corpse with a sense of accomplishment lightening my stride. There is nothing that an enemy of mine could ever do to me that would fill me with so much rage that I could shoot the tires out of a family sedan, stroll up to it, place the barrel of my weapon against the swollen womb of an expectant mother and pull the trigger three times to make sure the family’s first boy would die first, then proceed to execute, at point blank range, her four screaming children huddled together in a final embrace, the oldest not even a teenager at the ripe old age of eleven.
No, sir, there is nothing my enemy could do to me and there is no hate I can imagine harboring that would drive me to do those sorts of things or the hundreds of other similar things your Arab friends have done to Israeli Jews over the course of this conflict. In fact it is precisely my morality that brings me here, it is precisely my morality that drives my pen to criticize, and it is precisely my morality that motivates me to oppose the moral perverts that side with, further the cause of, or advance the goals of a craven peoples that honor, congratulate, idolize, and revere the child martyr, the suicide belt, the death squad killers, and the bloody handed mass murderer.
Thanks, Michael, for the clear reminder.

36 comments:

Anonymous said...

Michael
glad to learn that you are still reading here and consequently saying things which need to be said.

remember:
you pointed me to a video of your sport - then your technique of head butts intrigued me now I know what it reminded me off - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF4iWIE77Ts

Silke

Anonymous said...

It is a sober reminder of what we are fighting. It is incumbent on us not to turn into the monsters that our enemies are right now.

Great post Yaacov and thank you for pointing out Michael.

Asaf

NormanF said...

Only Jews are so compassionate they ignore the Torah and refuse to impose the death penalty for murder.

The value of a Jewish life is cheap in the State Of Israel!

Anonymous said...

Michael once again

I got around to reading your full comment only now
great stuff
- that sport of yours must be conducive to clear thinking (no irony intended far from it)
- I should overcome my history squeamishness and have a closer look
- any suggestions where to start? Is there a theory/premise/introduction somewhere? (ancient warfare magzine podcast first alerted me to the value and seriousness of such events)

Silke

Sérgio said...

Maybe jews should begin planting bombs all over Europe to compensate for 2.000 years of pan-european murderous antisemitism. I can imagine the compassionate understanding of the guardianistas.

Didi Remez said...

Wow, Yaacov, you've managed to surprise me again: You embrace this definition of morality? Remember the context it was written in.

In context, it basically asserts:
Members of extended group X behave immorally. Therefore, members of group Y are justified in taking any action against other members of group X.

I would provide some example applications, but you can think of them yourself and Sergio has provided a particularly illustrative one.

Yaacov said...

That's not what he said, Didi.

Just for the fun of it: try to imagine yourself back in 1940 London, say, and ask yourself if Michael's little speech would have raised any eyebrows whatsoever. If not (and indeed, I think not), what does it say about the intellectual world you and your like inhabit.

(We saw an example yesterday, with Glenn Greenwald's idiocy).

Didi Remez said...

That's exactly what he said about Silwan (if you think I misinterpret, you can find more than a few examples of that logic on his blog.)

Didn't you just use Greenwald's analogy? I would never do so. Kid of puts in context "you and your like."

zionist juice said...

well, hamas recently said, they keep low right now and will get back to full power after the world cup.
they must be really really desperate.... when they do not watch the world cup.

Anonymous said...

now what is this?

Didi is courageous enough to show up here again risking to be called "snobbish" (may have been me) or "snotty" (must have been somebody else and I very much doubt it was here) again

that's what I call true courage, I am sure Michael will be deeply impressed and agree with me ;-)

and yes Didi self-defence allows for a lot
- at least in real life and before real life courts.

- recently in England judges kind of acquitted a man who ran after a violent burglar/house-breaker after same had left his house and beat him into possibly everlasting disability.

Draw your own conclusions, if your aspiring to nannying Isreal into sainthood NIF-boss permits you to do such a thing.

and don't start the Int'l Law sing-song
- at the very least Gavin has sniffed a trend, when not started it, when he digged into it
- all of a sudden incongruities are discussed all over the place with real scholars seemingly being quite enthusiastic at finally getting listened to.

Silke

Sérgio said...

Yaacov,

Thanx. :) As we say in portuguese: "Para um bom entendedor, meia palavra basta."
('a word to the wise is sufficient').

Auguri.

Jon said...

Ah good Didi is here. Hi Didi, my comment has been awaiting moderation for 3 days. Censor much? Here it is, see if you recognize it. If not, I'll see if I can take a screenshot from my iPhone:

I like how you avoid actually responding by pretending to be SO offended by Yaacov’s “demagoguery.” So how about I ask the question: which do you think contributed to the peace movement’s “dormancy” – the Israeli Media, or actual events? If you were to assign percentages for each, what would they be? And yes, saying “it’s too complicated for me to do anything other than use vague terms like ‘large part’ that can signify anywhere from ‘virtually all’ to ‘ten percent,” is copping out, because I’d you’re going to say things, you should stand by them enough for them to actually mean something.

Jon said...

Oh and I'm really hoping you accuse me of faulty logic, so I have a case-study on how studying philosophy is useful.

Didi Remez said...

Hey Silke,

I've changed my mind about you. Your comments are enlightening. I'm sure it gives Yaacov great pleasure to have such an avid follower, who can always be relied upon to say what he can't -- such as agreeing with my interpretation of this moral logic.

Keep it up.

Didi

Didi Remez said...

Jon,

Since it's up here, I presume no need to put it up there.

Better yet, why don't you take that screenshot and put up a dedicated blog?

I get to to every comment, so thanks for saving me the trouble.

Didi

Jon said...

Wow. Not only do you ignore my point, but you continue to censor it on your blog! I'm impressed - I hadn't expected you to so blatantly expose your tactics. Unlike you though, I have actual things to do besides searching for an ego crutch on the web. So no I won't be making a blog anytime soon. But it's nice to know this exchange happened in public.

I mean it's bad enough you deliberately misquoted "Sergio." But this is even more classy.

Anonymous said...

Didi

great!!! who would have thought - miracles happen
- you honour me, me of all people, with a response - I am out of myself with gratitude and can't stop ululating from the repeated onrushes of happyness

I admit to standing corrected you are capable of changing your mind!
Did you have to ask your NIF-Boss first before admitting to that or is it permissible within your job description?

As I happen to be not only inordinately happy but a bit dumb and slow in the head also, maybe you like to expand your generosity to enlightening me to what "moral logic" is.

To my mind the combination sounds a bit lacking in the "level of precision and logic" I am used to in authors I follow for any length of time, even though you claim that Yaacov has pretentions at being an intellectual which keeps you mercifully from mudslinging. I am sure Yaacov and a lot of us hanging out here are extremely thankful to you for that show of magnaminity.

As I happen also not to know what exactly qualifies somebody as an intellectual in the first place I wonder how one pretends at being one.
Does the combination maybe apply to people who write accessible language as compared to those who try to emulate the Delphic oracle?

Looking forward to further education from your savvyness

Silke

Tami said...

This is why Didi has 3 followers in Israel and has to look for friends (and funding) from European Jew haters.

Tami

Sérgio said...

Let me guess: the followers are Fake Ibrahim Omar Malade al Berto Haj Cat Stevens Porteño; Pseudo-Rabbi Amandla and...who else?

Anonymous said...

Tami

Didi gets "it" from Europeans too?
Does NIF's Naomi Pass know that?

After all NIF's totally transparent super-system by Naomi Pass' own admission couldn't know every detail - I'm not kidding ...
- first she denied NIF having any doings with a German government funded organisation then said, that she couldn't be bothered by everything that was going on under NIF's umbrella or that's how I understood it

and now you say Didi is funded by Europeans?

Do you think Naomi will want to incorporate that in her wholly transparent system? or is that of the category that NIF can't be bothered by everything?

-----

Sergio
since you are "longing" for "Ibrahim" here's his latest
He calls football soccer! - is that proper language for a Latin American?

"'m devoting my free time to watching soccer. I'm an Argentinian first, a blogger next.
Fresh Zio-bashing to come soon, though."

Silke

Sérgio said...

In america, english football is soccer, while american football is mostly played with hands. Go figure.

I am eargerly waiting for Brazil x Argentina. But first, let us crush the Dutch tomorrow (another hollyday here in Brazil).

Cheers.

Anonymous said...

Sergio
my question was whether it is correct for a South-American to call football by its Gringo(US)-name or whether that hints to a lack of national pride?

Brazil x Argentinia????
you want us to get defeated by them? ;-(((( - tantrum!!!

(the Brits are back to calling us Huns - the huns were those who rode those fearsomely sturdy little ponies and shot from the saddle ;-)

good luck with the Dutch for you though

Silke

Sérgio said...

Ah, perfidious Albion!

Frankly, this world cup is one of the worst I've seen. Boring as hell, mediocre, everybody playing the same kind of game, lots of running and strength but low creativity. Not to mention those vuvuzelas from hell.

auguri.

Anonymous said...

Sérgio

I'll ask you again whether soccer is a permissible choice of words for a self-respecting South American when World Cup mania is over

- until then I look forward to having park and ducks during games all to myself ;-)

Silke

Sérgio said...

Silke,

Well, "soccer" is how foot-ball is named in the US. Dunno where this word comes from.

Best.

Bryan said...

The Online Etymology Dictionary claims that "soccer" comes from the "soc" in "association football" ("assoc.") and that "-er" was just a slangy modification.

I would very much like a Germany v. Holland final, but alas, it does not look possible. The accursed South Americans will ruin it that.

Anonymous said...

Sergio
the word comes from association football
- i.e. when the little red book of rules came into being that Melvyn Bragg (a member of perfidious Albion) called in one of his books one of the 10 most influential books ever written

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_football#Etymology

now would a self-respecting Argentinian or Brazilian or Mexican or Urugayan etc etc. when speaking English call it football or soccer?
i.e. succumb to American usage the country where pundits are complaining that the game is dull because there are so few scores???

good luck for you in 15 1/2 hours from now ;-)

Silke

Anonymous said...

Bryan
I think you just made yourself a life long enemy of Sérgio ;-)

how about Brazil against us Huns?

in the end, who knows maybe it will be the Ghana-ns
the beauty of it is that it is all so terribly unjust, just like real life

Silke

Sérgio said...

Silke,

Well, isn't (or aren't?) the US the current empire? So american-english is the current lingua-franca (as a side-effect english is being raped all over the globe, and I plead guilty in advance).

Bryan, thanx for the info on "soccer"! A final match with Brazil (that argentians liked the call "los macaquitos") and the Huns could be very interesting.

BTW, why Israel has no soccer tradition? Even the north-koreans are catching up! Yaacov?

Auguri.

AKUS said...

Looking at the few comments to the endless single-topic articles that this Didi Remez person writes on his blog, I think you may be overstating his importance, Yakov.

Am I wrong?

Bryan said...

Israel is ranked 26th in the world according to the FIFA-Coca Cola ratings of national football teams. That puts Israel in front of Paraguay (#31) and Ghana (#32). Seems like they're doing pretty well...

Brazil v. Germany would indeed be interesting. Hopefully the Huns can crush the Argentinians! Silke will have to teach us German football chants.

And Sérgio, don't apologize. The Eurovision song contest has already ruined English forever, so you're fine.

Anonymous said...

Sergio

Israel and no soccer tradition?
here is the website of the guy http://www.lizaswelt.net/
who will wash you mouth with soap 3 times a day for insinuating that. There is an e-mail link on the site if you click on Feedback and I am sure Liza's English is up to educating you on not only Israel's but very very proud Jewish football tradition in Germany.

Actually he told me recently that there is a café in Tel Aviv where Israelis meet to watch games of Bayern München, one of the clubs who kept its record as clean as possible during the 3rd Reich.

write to Liza and learn ;-)
of course I will also inform him of your unforgiveable insinuation ;-)))

Silke

Anonymous said...

to call football soccer i.e.. use the word the one nation, who doesn't get it, favours, is one of the nuttynesses of modern life which are beyond me.

Any lover of the game should steadfastly refuse to call it that way ;-)
after all that's the last bastion of resisting the empire we can be proud of ;-)

Watch Jon Stewart's triumphalist outburst when the US still stood a chance of winning the cup i.e. then the whole world will have to call it SOCCER... and resist!!!

Silke

Anonymous said...

AKUS
as to Didi Remez

in the short time I have "known" him, Jeffrey Goldberg linked to him twice that should have boosted his klicks and enhanced respectability with average readers like myself.

and if you go to NGO-Monitor here

http://www.ngo-monitor.org/article/ethical_guidelines_for_the_new_israel_fund

and klick through the links while paying attention what they have to say about that Ben-Or Outfit of his, it looks like he might be or have access to a center position to what NIF does in Israel - It amazes me, given his writing and arguing style - but maybe he is good at the kind of flexibility they require.

Silke

Rabbi Tony Jutner said...

Didi
keep up the good work and consider endorsing the BDS platform of NewJudaism.

Michael LeFavour said...

Yaacov,

Looks like I arrived late. Thank you for the honor. I have only been the star subject of a negative post before this. Sorry I rarely have anything to say here, but I do not have much to add when I see no harm done and logic being expressed. I arrived here from the Promised Land blog a few months ago, where I have much more to say when I have time to say it and I became interested enough to move your blog to the first page of my book marks. For a non-Jew and non-Israeli your commentary on day to day headlines from an unashamedly Israel centric point of view are invaluable. Thank you for that. I don't always agree with you, but I am humbled by your writing ability and hope you intend to keep it up.



Silke,

I am not as interested in the history aspect as the sport of it, I would be the wrong person to ask about that. I find the explanations the Society for Creative Anachronism present to be rather lame. It is the heavy infantry fighting that attracted me. I fulfilled a fantasy of wondering what it would be like to have been in the front rank of a shield wall as it crashed into another army. It is as close to real combat as I can imagine and many armies trained with wooden weapons from what I understand. A completely fulfilling endeavor that I would love to see take off elsewhere.


Didi,

You have created a straw man. Tsk tsk. If you think that my little test blog has examples of some logic that supports your interpretation of what I said then you will have no trouble pointing them out, right? Then again, normal people allow the speaker to clarify what they meant. You drew a conclusion and ran with it instead of dealing with me. Figures.