Tuesday, March 15, 2011

The Guardian's Alternate Universe

The Guardian's Harriet Sherwood, never a reporter to allow facts to interfere with her agenda, charts new terrain of cynicism, backed to the hilt by her editors. Having visited Itamar, she sums up the story of the murder of the Fogel family by informing us that "Israelis and Palestinians [are] in shock" about the massacre.

[h/t CifWatch]


Barry Meislin said...

Perhaps, the Palestinians are shocked that they let the two other children, sleeping in the adjoining room, live.

(Though in the---what is the word du jour? "intruders'"?---defense, they likely didn't know the children were there.)

But that's not really fair of me.

The real reason the Palestinians are shocked, simply shocked, is that Arabs don't do things like that and how DARE the Zionists accuse them of it????!!!!

(Of course they do have a point. Their narrative has been swallowed hook, line and sinker for so long now by so many that they have even started to believe it themselves.)

Barry Meislin said...

One must keep in mind that if Harriet did tell the truth (assuming she were capable of doing so), that she would lose her job.

File under: "To understand is to forgive" (?)

Dima's Blog said...

Dear Yaakov,

I read the article very carefully and I'm having a hard time understanding what you see as problematic. Perhaps you can elaborate?


NormanF said...

They celebrated the murder of Jews just like the Nazis did. We all thought that was ancient history - and here Israel has to relive those days again.

I cannot imagine any kind of peace with those who take pride in the murder of babies and little children - it is impossible.

Ya'acov, your biblical namesake wept in anguish over the loss of Joseph. Imagine the feelings in Israel over the loss of three sweet little children - Yoav, Elad and Hadass. That is going to stay with every one for a long time. I do not see how that can be forgiven.

Harriet Sherwood's drawing a false moral equivalence that doesn't exist is beneath contempt.

Yaacov said...

It's very simple, Dimitri. There is no shock on the Palestinian side. A bit of discomfort here and there, and regret that for a short moment some outsiders might have briefly focused on the fact that settlers have small children, and faint embarrassment that the Palestinians have been cast as the side that has murderers who coldly cut children to pieces in their beds. But no shock in the meaning that afflicted the Israelis this week, as they confronted the bestiality of some of their neighbors, and the celebrating Gazans handing out candy, and yet another reminder that the only thing that keeps most of us safe is our superior military might, not any sort of common humanity.

There was no such simple human shock on the Palestinian side, because if there was they'd do something about it. Yet Harriet, in her malice and ideological blindness, saw fit to invent it, and her editor saw fit to put it in the headline. There isn't the slightest shred of evidence for her description, but there you've got it: the Guardian doesn't operate with factual evidence, except when it's convenient. And when it's not - no matter. They invent facts to fit their thesis.

Anonymous said...

You said that the Palestinian side "invents facts to suit their thesis.". But this claim that Gazans handed out candy to celebrate the murders is a sheer fabrication designed to reinforce Zionist demonization of Palestinians. It's just a lie -- invented "facts". Prove me wrong.

RK said...

Anonymous, here, have a photograph: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/family_butchered_PnU3b12HF2Xn2M1WxR7WeK

Mich said...

Re: "There isn't the slightest shred of evidence for her description"

Maybe she got the idea from Israeli television. This London & Kirshenbaum clip suggests interviewer Shlomi Eldar found some shock on the street in Shechem.

Y. Ben-David said...

The Israeli media is frequently just as bad as the Guardian. Yesterday I heard them interview one of the veteran top PA/FATAH people, Jibril Rajub and they asked the ritual question about the Itamar attack. Following the cue of his boss, Abbas, he said "yes, terrible crime, not human....blah, blah, blah, BUT YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT IT COMES WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE 'OCCUPATION'". Naturally, the Israel radio interviewer clammed up instead of asking "if so, why does your official Palestinian Authority honor suicide bombers by naming public squares after them".

There is NO QUESTION that attacks like this bring large-scale public satisfaction to the Arab public. I will give a couple of anecdotal examples. During the height of the violence in Iraq a few years ago, a Jordanian from some town in northern Jordan carried out a suicide bombing in Iraq and killed dozens of Iraqi Shi'ites. The town threw a big party. A New York Times reporter came and asked what so good about what he did. They replied "he killed Shi'ites". The Jordanian authorities, embarrassed, forced them to stop and IIRC told the reporters to leave town.
A second story I also recall from Jordan was the big suicide bombing in Rabat Ammon (Amman) some years ago. A big fancy wedding of someone from the Palestinian Authority was hit and many people killed. The NYTIMES reporter asked a Jordanian on the street if he was shocked that their country was being hit by terrorism. His response was something like "who cares....rich people".

These two cases were Muslims killing fellow Muslims. We Israelis, on the other hand, are their enemies, so would they show more compassion when Jews are the victims?

Ibrahim Ibn Yusuf said...

“This act was abominable, inhuman and immoral,” Mr. Abbas said in a rare interview with Israel Radio that was conducted in Arabic. Referring to the killing of three of the family’s young children, including a baby, he added, “Any person who has a sense of humanity would be pained and driven to tears by such sights.”

I would say that's a fact supporting Ms. Sherwood's assertion. But since Yaacov doesn't have Arabic (even after decades living in a bilingual city), he probably missed Mr. Abbas' condemnation.

As for the people who handed out candy, they're as relevant as, say, the Jewish war tourists who flocked to Sderot to watch the Gaza destruction live during Cast Lead.

Y. Ben-David said...

Then why does Abbas give official Palestinian Authority honor and respect to suicide bombers and the womann who was involved in the Coastal Road Massacre in the 1970's by naming public squares and streets and official events after them?

Yaacov said...

Folks -

Ibrahim is an Argentinian fellow named Alberto, who has no Arab forbears at all though he does have a Jewish grandfather. Apparently part of his spite has to do with a spat he had some years ago with the Jewish community in Rosario, where he lives. I don't delete his comments, but having followed him for a while, I recommend not to respond to them. He's a Saul Alinsky type, who isn't here to talk, rather to score points.

Mich: now that was a worthy comment. Thank you. I'm pulling it up to a blog post of its own.

Anonymous said...

Hey RK see where that nypost pic of the guy handing out sweets says it's from Getty images. It's a stock photo. You people have been played. It's okay though right? All for a good cause. But back in reality land, know that there WERE NO celebrations by Gazans, and there WAS NO handing out of candy.

Yaacov said...

Getty images can't be up to date? First I've ever heard. Anyway, you're free to comment here, but it would be polite to adopt a recognizable moniker, such as RK, or Ibrahim ibn Yussuf, or something like that.

annie said...

Anonymous - you are determined to believe that the Palestinians are pure sainted souls, white as the driven snow. So perhaps there's no point in showing you another source, from the Australian news service news.com.au

I don't see that this is stock Getty images.

Furthermore, if the story is a lie, why have we not heard rebuttals and denials from the Palestinians?

Anonymous said...

Yeah that's right Yaacov, stock photos aren't news photos and they're not up to date. I just thought it was amusing that here you are complaining about Palestinians making up facts, when that is clearly a Zionist specialty. This story about Gazans handing out candy to celebrate the murders is a sheer fabrication. But it served it's purpose right? It was repeated endlessly on the internet. Hey you know what we call that? I think the term is "incitement". Don't worry about me posting here. Just lurking to watch how you people think.

Barry Meislin said...

More "Zionist specialties":


Barry Meislin said...

Anonymous does have a valid point:

They were not "candies"; they were "sweets" (more specifically, baklava).

Good catch, anon!!

More "Zionist specialties" (Yummy!):




And more "Zionist specialties" from about six months ago (Umm, umm, good!!):



annie said...

What happened to my comment? It included a link to a picture in an Australian newspaper of Palis handing out sweets.

Anonymous said...

Barry. Thanks for finding the one from August. Wasn't aware of that one. It does look like more and more like a Zionist meme, to plant lies in the media trying to portray Palestinians as rejoicing when Israeli Jews are murdered. It's happened before and will happen again. When it comes to people being caught celebrating murders, though, who can forget the dancing Mossad operatives arrested in Jersey City on 9-11. Well documented, and factual, very unlike this childish stupid lie about Gazans passing out candy on the street to celebrate Itamar. Which was intended for people like you, Barry, to comfort you. Do you feel comfortable?

Yaacov said...

annie -

Blogger has developed a habit of moving some comments to the spam file. Whenever that happens, drop me a note or leave a short comment, and I'll go over to the spam file and send it back. As I just did with your link.

Barry also found some more pictures. Do you think our anonymous lurker will write them all off? I do. It's a standard tactic with deniers of reality: if you can't document it it never happened, if you can, your documentation is lies. That's the reason their line of reasoning generally doesn't bring them many followers: they undermine the possibility of rational discussion. I could develop this further, having watched them close up in the 1980s when they were trying to prove to the world that the Shoah never happened, but as that case demonstrated, sometimes it's simply not worth the time arguing. The destructiveness of their logic repels most normal people.

Oops: he did it, even as I was writing. And invented one about Mossad agents dancing on 9/11. That's a new one for me.

Maybe I should tell Elder of Ziyon he's got to tell the folks to be more careful.

Anonymous said...

Annie. The three photos are all sourced from Daylife. Barry discovered this all by himself. I discovered it when I researched this episode over the weekend and posted about it on Reddit. In the Hebrew/English media the earliest source for the story itself was in YNet (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4041106,00.html), at least the earliest that I could find. The story was then echoed ad nauseam throughout the internet -- google "Palestinians sweets Itamar". It's possible that the YNet story was sourced from the Daylife photos + text. These photos, even if you were to take them at face value, hardly demonstrate what they are supposed to. Daylife has an interesting description of itself inn its FAQ, check it out: http://corp.daylife.com/faq/about-the-company/what-is-daylife-exactly.html

Anonymous said...

Was my last reply suppressed by the spam filter?

Yaacov said...

Yep, Anon, but I've now posted it. We're sneaky, us Zionists, and in this case, I'm glad to give you space for you to demonstrate your methods and to undermine your credibility.

Barry Meislin said...

Yet even more Zionist specialties:



Anonymous said...

Thanks Yaac. Yes you Zionists are very sneaky. Think of Mossad's motto, or former motto. BTW, would you like to discuss the dancing Israelis on 9-11? I really don't, but your feigned ignorance of that episode is rather shocking.

Barry Meislin said...

More Zionist specialties (this from July 12, 2006):


Ibrahim Ibn Yusuf said...

Y. Ben-David,

First of all, please ignore Yaacov's rantings against me.

Second of all, you ask, Then why does Abbas give official Palestinian Authority honor and respect to suicide bombers and the womann who was involved in the Coastal Road Massacre in the 1970's by naming public squares and streets and official events after them?

Very simple. All countries honor one terrorist or another. For instance, the Jewish terrorist David Raziel is vastly honored in Israel. More than 100 streets and even a town are named after this deranged man who masterminded the blowing to smithereens of dozens of Arab children, women and elderly people.

Also, you might ask how it is that Israel continues to pay the salaries of rabbis who have ordered their followers not to rent houses to Arabs. Or how it is that a rabbi who recommends the killing of children "because of the future danger that will be caused if they are allowed to grow up to be as wicked as their parents" is also supported by the State.

The list of Israeli incitement is certainly longer than Abbas'. Just today I saw a comment on Ynet whose only phrase was "Time to kill Palestinians" (comment #30 here. Although a moderation policy is in place, the comment hasn't been deleted.

Bryan said...

Anon: The Mossad is an intelligence service. Its entire job is to be secretive. When you find an intelligence service with the motto, "transparency liberates the mind," come find me.

Yaacov said...

Tho actually, the Mossad seems to have had a good day yesterday. They sent those IDF SEAL commandos to board that German-owned-French-operated-Nicaraguan-flagged-Iranian-loaded-Syrian-embarked ship on its way from Turkey to Egypt with hundreds of containers, and the SEALs knew exactly which four containers had the missiles and radars in them. As I said, those Zionists are sure sneaky.

AKUS said...


Thanks for that comment and link. It was indeed something different and in a way, positive.

Anonymous said...

Anon, you have to respect those Hamasniks. Wearing coats and sweaters in the 40 degrees Centigrade heat in August. Of course as we know from the UN they ran out of water in the summer of 2006 after their power plant was bombed.



Barry Meislin said...

Very simple. All countries honor one terrorist or another.

Particularly those countries (or countries to be?) who are willing to do anything and everything to persuade their partners in peace that they would like nothing better than to annihilate them.

You have hit upon a very important point. Touche!!

Anonymous said...

Barry Meislin, the difference is some honour them long after they are dead and some honour and excuse them whilst they are murdering civilians.


Anonymous said...

Israeli incitement is more than the Palestinians? I'll take that bet any day. Lets take any random 24 hour period, show whats on mainstream Israeli TV and whats on mainstream Palestinian TV. Or what in the ARTICLES Palestinian mainstream media publishes and what is in mainstream Israeli media.