Friday, April 22, 2011

Radical Israelis Prefer Murderers

For years I've believed - and have said in print - that for all my disagreements with far-left Israelis, they were a legitimate voice and deserved respect for criticizing from inside the war zone: if proven wrong, they'd be here to pay the price; when Palestinian or Hisballah murderers do their best to kill random Israeli Jews, the far-left Israelis are here along with all the rest of us. This creates a qualitative distinction between them and their foreign fellows in malice.

I'm no longer convinced. As I've long been documenting in this blog, the contribution Israel's radicals make to the Big Lie against Israel is immense; sometimes the entire anti-Israeli argumentation comes from them. Absent them and the hatred of the Jewish State wouldn't go away, but its purveyors could present far fewer arguments.

This week we've had a further example which to my mind crosses all the lines of simple human decency. The Hebrew part of the Internet has been all a-buzz about the story of the Israeli radicals who went to the West Bank town of Awarta to give succor to the families of the murderers of the Fogel family, while disseminating unforgivable slander against the IDF and the law enforcement agencies.

The story of the investigation was under a gag order for a month, until its successful conclusion. Still, Israel being the very small place it is, anybody who cared to know had a pretty good idea what was going on. In brief, immediately after the murder trackers identified tracks of the suspected murderers from Itamar to the nearby town of Awarta. We now know that the two suspected murderers walked back home after the massacre of the Fogel family, where a number of their friends and relatives burned their clothes and hid their weapons near Ramallah. The investigators, who had reason to believe the murderers and potential accomplices were in town, but couldn't yet have known who, how many, how well armed, and if they intended to murder again, sealed off the town and began to investigate. At a minimum, the investigators knew the murderers had the two M-16's stolen from Itamar. At one point they collected DNA samples from most of the men. Had anyone come forward and admitted their part in the massacre the investigation would have been greatly expedited, but this didn't happen, so the investigators had to find their men in a hostile environment. They succeeded in less than a month. The week before the gag order was lifted the suspected murderers were brought to Itamar to re-enact the murder, so everyone in Itamar knew they'd been caught; soon, everyone else who cared knew, too, even if the precise identities of the murderers were not yet known.

At this point a delegation of radical Israeli leftists visited the town: after the investigation, mind you, since as they openly said in their subsequent reports, during the investigation itself they couldn't get in.

There are two extraordinarily incriminating pieces of evidence for the malice of the radicals. The first is a report by Yaakov Manor, of the Alternative Information Center. It was written in Hebrew, and published on their website. It describes the violence of the Israeli forces, and attributes it to their need for revenge. It is based largely on eye-witness reports of local townspeople, the exact same people who had been obstructing the investigation for most of the month. The head of the town informs Manor that the reason the IDF spent so much time in town was to prepare the confiscation of agricultural land. Then Manor went to visit the family of Hakem Awad, one of the suspected murderers. Here's the English translation of what they found:
The horror that we saw with our own eyes in the home of Mahmoud Awad cannot be described as anything but a pogrom, primate and brutal vengeance intended solely to impose fear in the heart of the residents.

All rooms in the home were turned upside down. Most of the furniture and electronic equipment was broken. Food from the kitchen was dumped on the floor and on it a large vat of oil was poured.

The mother of the family, Shama and the children Majd, 14 years old and Alaa, 6 years old, who were not detained, related that the army’s invasion of their home began at 4am and ended around 11am. Family members were dragged out of their beds and not permitted to bring warm clothing or blankets. A soldier who saw the little girl trying to shield herself from the cold ripped the blanket away from her. Alaa relates that “they took my blanket and I was very cold and afraid, and waited outside until the soldiers left. Majd notes that “I was handcuffed, my eyes were covered and they beat me. All in all I’m a little boy, what did I do wrong?
The father of the family, Mahmoud, 45 years old, the son Majdi, aged 20, a third year university student and the son Amjad, 19 years old, a first year university student and the son Hakhem, 17 years old, were detained. Their cousin Ayman, 21 years old, was also detained. The mother claims that soldiers took 2,500 Jordanian dinars from a drawer and 5 mobile phones. The mother looked broken, in shock and in deep grief. The fear and terror had not yet left her eyes.
It gets worse. Hagit Beck, a member of Machsom Watch, describes on her blog how she and some other women went to visit "the 2 homes which had been ransacked". The second of the two was the home of Hakem Awad. (Isn't in interesting how in spite of all the horror, the reports all seem to focus on the same one or two homes?). The blog-post has been put up also on the Machsom Watch website: they're obviously proud of it. While in the house, Raya Yaron, the Machsom Watch spokeswoman, tried to comfort Shama Awad, mother of suspected murderer Hakem Awad, and wife of one of the men suspected for destroying the evidence. If proven in court, this will mean Shama Awad hid her murderer son from the police for most of a month, knowing fully what he had done. This is the woman Raya Yaron is embracing, and Hagit Beck is celebrating.
For what it's worth: The Alternative Information Center is cited on page 555 of the Goldstone Report as one of their sources. Also, some of the Hebrew websites are claiming that the two NGOs are or have been supported bythe NIF. It's plausible,but I haven't checked. Something worth looking into.


Anonymous said...

I wonder who people like Hagit Beck are and what is their reason for embracing those who murder Israelis?

Avigdor said...

You have a village of what, several hundred people? Imagine the enormity of the task, to find one or more killers within that group. How many interrogations needed to be performed, how many stories cross-checked until that one insight, that one inconsistency that unraveled the plot.

There's gotta be a way to send those guy a pizza or flowers, or something.

NormanF said...

They're evil and I hate them.

They have no compassion for the Fogel children but demonstrate unjustified sympathy in abundance for the murderers of their family. They are the people who fit to a T the Talmud's description of "he who is merciful to the wicked, will be cruel to the righteous."

These sick people are not Jews in my view. They're accused mamzers. I hope they get punished by G-d for their cruelty to orphans!

Silke said...

they remind me of our RAF*)-people whose drivel created many imitators at the time which I had to work with as temps assigned to me in that blessed time in the 70s when there were more jobs than people.

That said, as best I know the original RAF-people liked to visit trainings camps of the PLO in order to learn how to bring down the SchweineSystem (pig system)

In the quote in this post these people seem to "better" even my "beloved" Fake Ibrahim.

*) Rote Armee Fraktion = Red Army Group

Silke said...


I dimly remember a case of child murder some years back where the police took DNA-samples from men who had been asked to volunteer and they came in the thousands (5 is what I remember) which of course put a certain pressure on those not willing to volunteer including those who were just wary on principle of giving the state access to too much data. But they were just outvoted by the population who wanted to see the killer in court and they got their guy.

Now imagine the international outcry if Israel would have asked after the Fogel-massacre for volunteer DNA-sampling from the village...

But even more interesting: would there have been a stampede of volunteers?
once all that prodding from the Int'l Human Rightists to resist the data-hungry-octopus had gotten into gear?

Anonymous said...

There is some pathology at work here. Hagit Beck would hate whatever country she lived in.

There are people like her in every country, unfortunately because Israel is under siege the damage that her views cause is much greater.

I would suggest that as part of the negotiating process between Israel and the Palestinians people like Ms. Beck be forced to live in the incohate forthcoming Palestinian State. She could also be asked to move to Gaza.

Let her experince what it means to live in a real non democratic country.

That she probably won't want to live there talls us what a hypocrite she is.

Nancy Ewart said...

What do "other" Israelis say about the reports of the IDF's behavior - the purported vandalism, etc. Also, I am confused. In the quote from Manor, the IDF is first accused of ripping a blanket off a little girl but the quote is from somebody named "Madj" who calls himself a "little boy." If he's 20, he's not a little boy. Does anybody know what really went on?

Anonymous said...

Just to extract one little thread from that enormous tangled knot of evil: Calling pogroms acts of vengeance is itself pure antisemitism.

Silke said...

"Palestinians" are either little children or tottering old people, never ever are they adult respnsible persons.

I wonder which of the two those marchers armed to the hilt belong to i.e. are freedom fighters tender little kids (some of the language re Arrigoni suggested that) or are they like old men long beyond their prime due to all the stuff they have suffered during their endeavours to inflict maximum pain on others?

Y. Ben-David said...

I recall that Caroline Glick said she grew up in a suburb of Chicago where everyone hated America.
Tony Karon of Time Magazine who grew up in South Africa, was proud of his supposed anti-apartheid beliefs but fled the country when the blacks took over once wrote regarding Castro's Cuba something to the effect that while it was true that everyone lived in grinding poverty there and in fear of the secret police the people had an immense sense of pride of their country "sticking their finger in Uncle Sam's eye" if he is projecting his Leftist neuroses onto the Cuban people.
We see this sense of ongoing, permanent rage and alienation in many Leftists, particularly Jewish Leftists. There is nothing new here but we have to accept that deviants of this type seem to be a permanent part of society. Are there more Jews like this than in the past, or is it simply that they are more visible since anyone can open a blog and get an international audience? I really don't know.

Anonymous said...

It is selfhatred and indentification with one's enemies.

yuval said...

in Yediot -Ahronot printed weekend edition they have an interview with one of the commanders who's unit was involved in the search in Awarta - he's quoted as saying that in his sector thee had been an order not to harm any of the residents in any way and that the troops were being briefed on the issue of civilians and their rights constantly, I know this is a long and continues effort from the IDF (serving in it for three years myself) to educate the soldiers about "non-involved" beyond the values lessons they receive in basic training and for the most part I believe that commander who also said that he's glad human rights groups operate in the territories since it reminds the IDF to keep checks on itself.
for the most part I just don't believe MH and others ideologically motivated "human rights" groups.
for the most part I'm a left-winger.

Anonymous said...

I wonder if they also went to Itamar to comfort the remaining Fogels?


Nancy Ewart said...

It makes sense that those who are rabidly against Israel or who are self-hating would not scruple to print anything, however false, that shows Israel in a bad light. I have a similar acquaintance, who always finds some way to make a nasty dig at the US. We are both Americans, both supposedly leftist but I love my country while she considers us ALL barbarian thugs and Fascists.

Sérgio said...

She reached new levels of perversion. She would also confort Goering,
Heydrich, Mengele and Eichmann if she could.

Ibrahim Ibn Yusuf said...

the troops were being briefed on the issue of civilians and their rights constantly

The civilians have the right not to have their furniture broken, their oil containers tipped over and their kitchen sinks ripped off the wall. See here for a picture taken by Rabbis for Human Rights of the aftermath of a raid in Awarta. Even if this is the home of one the murderers, the IDF have no right to perpetrate such destruction.

Silke said...

Troll Alert!!!!!

the Fraudster Ibrahim shows up here hoping to find somebody who will follow him to his own blog which thoroughly lacks from commenters.

Don't help him out - in case you want to know why I call him Fraudster, click on Yaacov's profile.

Anonymous said...

Ibrahim Ibn Yusuf, you are not a very bad boy, you are an antisemite. You were baaned by Harry's PLace and some other websites.

You have been posting attacks on Jews for many years now. You probably grew up in the same neighborhood Eichman found refuge.

I am not surprised that you would cheer on the people who murdered a whole Jewish family. This is what you are about.

Sérgio said...

Fake Ibrahim al-Berto is a pathetic fraudster that goes around desperately pimping for his desolate blog.

He´s got that deranged obsession Israel´s misdeeds, instead of focusing on his own very troubled Argentine which, BTW, has been trying a raprochement with Iran (that great beacon of progress), by offering to stall the investigations of government involvemnet in the AMIA and Israel´s embassy bombings.

He´s just an obscene freak.

Anonymous said...

Shalom and Shabat Shalom.
I am more to the left than most people here. My son was there. As for the search in the house and the pictures spread. I am told that most houses in the village were not searched so throughly. You have to realized that even now no Israeli knows the whole story. Every body in the village was telling a mixture of truth and lies. The IDF searched that house looking for any piece of evidence they could find, even the smallest, a bullet? a document? a weapon? and they did not know what they were looking for. Often things are hidden in the strangest places. Any police anywhere will do likewise.
The other sad fact is that the murderes were brought to the scene of the crime long before the Arab village was open to the visitors from the left. And many Israelies saw them there. Also many Arabs in Ramalla knew what was going long befor the village was open for visitors. Rummors spread very fast. In short he think that the Israeli visitors who went to the village and the Israeli woman on the picture knew whom she was hagging.

andrew r said...

"He´s got that deranged obsession Israel´s misdeeds"

Woah, hang on now, Israel has misdeeds? Nooo waaaay!

Silke said...

Troll alert !!!

andrew r is, as may be guessed, an ardent admirer of our dear occasional visitor ass-a-Jew Fake Ibrahim.

Silke said...

thanks for telling ...

Anonymous said...

andrew r said...

"Woah, hang on now, Israel has misdeeds? Nooo waaaay!"

You are right "andrew" Israel should be condemned for consucting a thorough search for the murders of a Jewish family.

Of course, Syria, Libya, Hamas should be praised for killing their own people and for making was on the Jews.

Sérgio said...

"Woah, hang on now, Israel has misdeeds? Nooo waaaay!" andy dick

The difference is that Israel recognizes her *true* mistakes, has an open press and society that scrutinize her government´s actions, and she functions under the rule of law. In sum, it´s a modern liberal democracy, even a multicultural one, all that while being under real threat for most of her existence.

Now, as for, say, Argentine, one can´t say that much, can we? Just the last round of 6 years of dictatorship (worse than Pinochet´s) left some 30.000 civilians dead, around the same casualties of 60 years of I-P conflict.

Curiously, Andy Dick an Fake Ibhrahim, that "ambiguously gay duo", proudly think of themselves "bad boys" for whining over Israel.
There´s hardly anything more ridiculous.

yuval said...

not to mention they lie systematically

Sérgio said...

It´s their second nature...

Yaacov said...

Aw folks, no need to pile onto them like that. Andrew r rarely comes by so I don't know much about him. Alberto, on the other hand, I know all about, and feel comfortable in saying that his main problem, beyond his malice, is that he's not very intelligent. He has a good sense of humor, so for a while I didn't realize how serious his problem is, but eventually it couldn't be overlooked. He doesn't understand basic concepts such as context, evaluation of sources, or even simple ones such as cause and effect or chronology. So feel free to poke holes in his statements - or to simply disregard him - but there's no need to be mean to him.

Well, except for the fact that he's so full of nastiness. That might be a justification.

Yaacov said...

Victor - It's not a few hundred, it's a few thousand.

Silke said...

sorry I disagree

I go back quite some time with andrew r

I have no idea what he is up and am not trying to find out but from experiences of what is possible I'd say it likely is something more than spouting some insults

so I am favour of being careful rather than late

Unknown said...

If I may. A long time ago, another life really (don't ask) I was present during a police search and later saw the aftermath of another. They make one heck of a mess looking for evidence. Everything is emptied, including food containers, as described. To conduct a careful search they would have to remove everyone from the premises and the search would take twice as long, if not longer. It is more efficient to make a mess and break things than to be careful.

That said, the aftermath of a search is of no consequence when compared to a murder scene. It is insulting to the murder victims and their families the way that this search scene is described. But this is typical of the left. The objective is to demonize their enemies and it doesn't matter how they do it.

My deepest condolences to the Fogel family and all Israelis for your terrible loss..

Unknown said...

I'm sorry. I did not mean murder "scene". I meant murder.

Oh, and that woman is a disgrace and a traitor.

Carrie said...

Raya Yaron is a disgusting human being and I'm ashamed that she's Jewish.

Anonymous said...

Can someone tell me what Machsom means?

I cannot believe that woman giving comfort to the bitch that whelped that evil butcher is an Israeli. WTH is wrong with her?

Motl said...

Everybody here is clearly for collective punishment... and do not consider the fact that the Israeli democracy is supposed to respect Human Rights, even of murders families.In a lot of cases, IDF soldiers have stolen Palestinian properties. Probably our high jewish values.
les din veles dayen.